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BULLSHIT! #3

It’s been too long but I had the urge. Actually, I have to thank Andrew over at Evolvify who did an outstanding and comprehensive post on a topic I was going to hit either today or tomorrow. But, he did such a job that it would have been silly not to just point to his, since I already knew about it. So I posted in his comments:

Though mine would have been my typical hit & run piece, I’m still glad you saved me the trouble, as this has been in my working queue since yesterday or whenever I got wind of it.

Now I’ll just mention it in a link roundup or BULLSHIT! episode and let people know where to get the straight scoop.

He replied:

But by saving your time, I may have deprived the world of one of your deliciously vitriolic, while justified, demolitions of ideological pap.

So… to Richard… You’re welcome for the time saving (I guess).

But to everyone else… I’m sorry.

Ha! Well, I’m flattered, of course; and I hate to disappoint and sure hope I haven’t, but I got right on doing a BULLSHIT! video and here it is. Oh, before I forget, thanks to reader Don Wiss who happened to email me an added piece of information while I was preparing and it was very helpful.

BULLSHIT! from Richard Nikoley on Vimeo.

Show notes:

Meaty fad diet goes back to Stone Age by Cornell McClellan

THE FIRST TRAINER | Silly paleo plan is rapidly gaining fans, but is it good to eat like a caveman?

(See the comments, universally negative toward McClellan and the article, so far)

And here’s his vegan connection.

~~~

Single egg yolk can double coronary risk: study

Three researchers say it’s a myth that dietary cholesterol is not a concern for heart, stroke (Dr. David Spence, a University of Western Ontario stroke-prevention expert; Dr. David Jenkins, Canada research chair in nutritional sciences at the University of Toronto; and Dr. Jean Davignon, a cholesterol expert with the Institut de recherches cliniques de Montreal).

Richard Nikoley

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2021, contains 5,000 posts. I blog what I wish...from health, diet, and food to travel and lifestyle; to politics, social antagonism, expat-living location and time independent—while you sleep—income. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. Read More

63 Comments

  1. Matt on November 5, 2010 at 14:23

    For those interested, here’s the egg study:

    I was reading with an open mind until I came upon, in the section “Adverse Effects of Dietary Cholesterol”:

    “In 1908, Ignatowski showed that meat – containing the pro-oxidant iron – fed to adult rabbits, or milk and egg yolks fed to weaning rabbits, induced atherosclerosis. In 1913, Anitschkov established the cholesterol-fed rabbits as a model for dietary atherosclerosis.”

    I can’t believe this is still being referenced. Rabbits? They’re fucking herbivores! Of course force-feeding them meat is going to cause some problems. They also developed cholesterol legions in the eyes and muscles – a sign that this diet was not quite right for this animal.

    At best, this paper shows that people with diabetes might not want to eat eggs. How this gets stretched to “people at risk of cardiovascular disease” in the article you linked to is beyond me.

    People with diabetes have correlation A. People with diabetes have a greater risk of CVD. Therefore, people with a great risk of CVD have correlation A.

    WRONG! Just plain terrible science to back up bullshit blanket statements.

    The three authors also receive money from drug companies. Just sayin’.

  2. Sylvie O. on November 5, 2010 at 03:36

    Hey Richard. Since you speak French, I though this could be of interest to you:
    http://www.ledevoir.com/societe/consommation/258846/l-entrevue-sans-viande-pas-d-humanite

    For your readers, brief round up: Pre-historian Marylene Patou-Mathis describes how fossil finds show that eating meat is what helped the first division from apes to humans. In some locales, the consumption of meat was as high as that of wolves, and it is this high input of fat and proteins that helped the human brain develop and become what it is today.

    So that could explain that that McClellan guy can’t think straight.

  3. Cheryl White on November 5, 2010 at 03:50

    I’m going to preface this by saying that I have only been on Paleo for about six weeks. But regarding Part A of your Bullshit! post I have to agree that it is most definitely BULLSHIT! Around the three week mark I caught myself, quite by accident, FASTING. That’s right. Fasting. Know why? FAT GIRL WASN’T EFFING HUNGRY!! I am categorized as being obese (from a lifetime of the SAD AND a 7 year stint in vegetarianism) and now all of a sudden I’m no longer hungry. As a matter of fact just yesterday I went 20 hours without eating and it wasn’t even intentional. I was just so sated from my “fad” Paleo diet that I didn’t feel the need to eat. Cornell McClellan can bite my fat Paleo ass. But he’d better hurry because it won’t be fat for long.

    Regarding Part B of your Bullshit! post I must again concur with your conclusion. I eat two local farm raised, free range chicken eggs fried in nitrate free bacon grease (along with the bacon) nearly every morning for breakfast. After 30 days on Paleo my LDL went from 175 to N/A because it was so effing low it wouldn’t register at the lab. The “cholesterol” doctors can get in line behind McClellan and bite my fat ass too.

    This Fat Girl isn’t leaving the Paleo cave.

    • VW on November 5, 2010 at 08:18

      Cheryl, I just wanted to chime in here and first off congratulate you on your success. But I also wanted to mention that my appetite has gone away just like yours. I almost don’t trust it and keep finding myself thinking, “I need to be eating something by now.”



    • Cheryl White on November 5, 2010 at 17:08

      Thank you so much! I know what you mean about almost not trusting the loss of appetite. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned this year (after going into full blown metabolic syndrome) it’s to trust my body. If I forget to eat because I’m not hungry I figure it’s ok because if I needed something my body would tell me. Your body talks to you all the time. Most people just don’t listen until it’s too late.



  4. Joanne B on November 5, 2010 at 04:59

    Thank you!
    LOL, you made my morning. I was waiting for something like this, especially about the egg study since it’s been on many Canadian news sites up here.
    I almost choked on my eggs when first I saw the headlines the other morning, but quickly came to the same conclusion as you and went on to enjoy the rest of my breakfast.

  5. David Csonka on November 5, 2010 at 05:21

    Yeah, Andrew at Evolvify writes some pretty well referenced and thoughtful essays on paleo stuff every now and then. Good read

  6. Alex on November 5, 2010 at 05:33

    The comment on the Sun-Times site that stands out for me is the one by a paleo dieter but is attributed to “durianrider”. The durianrider most of us are familiar with is the bat-shit crazy leader of the 30BAD fruitarian cult.

    • Victoria on November 5, 2010 at 10:04

      haha- that jumped out at me too! I thought it was someone having a good laugh… I know it made me smile!



  7. Sue on November 5, 2010 at 05:37

    Richard

    for your next Bullshit video:

    Did you catch Nightline last night? In their article about the new fad of Gluten Free diet, some doc comes on to explain the dangers of non celiac diseased folks going gluten free:
    1. lack of fiber 2. lack of B vitamins (his explanation there was that the folks that make flour fortify it with B vitamins, so if you don’t get enough flour…sheesh).
    The dangers of going gluten free – for crying out loud!!!!! And of course the doc was carrying at least 20 extra lbs. All that flour.

    • Travis on November 5, 2010 at 07:46

      He must be getting a nice paycheck from the wheat harvesters. Doctors spend very little time in medical school learning about nutrition, and what they do learn is CW bullshit. What an idiot!



    • Don Wiss on November 5, 2010 at 08:14

      Everybody can catch it online. Go to: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/
      Find “Is Gluten Free Good?” in the middle column. Peter Green has a nutritionist as a best buddy named Anne Lee. The other thing to notice is when they mention using gluten-free for autism they are quick to point out that it isn’t proven.

      Fortunately there are other doctors specializing in celiac disease that are more with it. Alessio Fasano at the University of Maryland was just given $45 million by a grateful patient. He believes in gluten sensitivity and his main focus of research is on intestinal permeability. His findings will benefit the paleo community.



    • Richard Nikoley on November 5, 2010 at 14:22

      Jesus, virtually that entire video is a train wreck.



    • Emily Deans MD on November 5, 2010 at 11:48

      The whole reason they had to supplement flour with b vitamins is because the urban population reliant on refined flour was horribly malnourished prior to WWII when the supplementation programs began. Weston Price noted that 1/3 of people were mentally compromised and unable to take care of themselves. There was a huge increase in people needing to be admitted to asylums in the latter half of the 19th century and the early 20th century. Back then, it was curative to go to the country (eating whole, real country food) or the seashore (same thing, with fish!). To see someone claim that we need to have grains because they are supplemented with b vitamins shows such… ignorance, nutritionism, arrogance…



    • Travis on November 5, 2010 at 13:16

      Thank you for the history lesson Dr. Deans. I always learn something new here.



    • Patty on November 6, 2010 at 16:25

      What’s really funny is that the doc in the video is actually the author of a book titled “Celiac Disease: A Hidden Epidemic”. And on the cover of the book he says “get gluten out of your diet — and feel better”. The whole thing was just a thinly veiled commercial for not just Hasselbeck’s book, but also the one by the doctor AND the one by the gluten free baker! Like they say, any publicity is good publicity! I did write my take on it, but would love to see Richard rip it apart in the next Bullshit video!



  8. Michael on November 5, 2010 at 21:38

    about the egg study, two links (Briffa & Naughton):

    http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2010/11/04/more-bad-science-thats-eggsactly-what-it-is/

    http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/11/05/still-no-good-evidence-that-eggs-cause-heart-disease-despite-what-some-may-say/

    BTW that Davignon Doc has a very good relationship with Pfizer:

    “Last year, a new component of Pfizer’s Cardiovascular Research Awards was introduced. The Distinguished Jean Davignon Cardiovascular and Metabolic Research Award was created to recognize the outstanding contributions Dr.Davignon has made to research in the fields of dyslipidemia and atherosclerosis in Canada throughout his career. The Jean Davignon proposals will be submitted through a separate section of the http://www.PfizerCV.ca Web site. All submissions will be reviewed by Dr. Davignon and members of the same committee in charge of the Pfizer’s Cardiovascular Research Awards program.”

    doc, if you want to work with Pfizer on erectile dysfunction that’s fine, that’s useful, but if you’re working with Pfizer on some drug that the company will try to push on victims of government-promoted corporate-sponsored unhealthy official dietary advice, then you’re a fraud.

  9. David Csonka on November 5, 2010 at 07:44

    By the way, Richard, I think your video-blogs are getting better and better each time. You seem so much more relaxed and conversational then your first few videos. Keep it up man! Starting to get that Jon Stewart like vibe. 😀

    • Richard Nikoley on November 5, 2010 at 08:33

      Thanks David. I enjoy them more and more, so that probably has something to do with it



    • Patty on November 6, 2010 at 16:35

      A mix between Jon Stewart and David Letterman and Craig Ferguson IMO. It’s 7:33pm here and the first time I laughed out loud all day was after watching this. See, education can be entertaining.



  10. Travis on November 5, 2010 at 09:05

    I added my 2 cents worth as micah3110 at the Sun Times web site. This is one of my hometown papers and it’s generally of very low quality. Roger Ebert is about the only think they’ve got going for them.

  11. Nathaniel on November 5, 2010 at 09:06

    Whoa, hold up…. Megan Fox is paleo? Is this confirmed?

    • Don Wiss on November 5, 2010 at 17:09

      On this page:
      Under Diet Plan it states she is on the paleo diet. And according to that page Matthew McConaughey and Paul Walker are also.



  12. Travis on November 5, 2010 at 10:14

    P.S. I enjoyed this installment on BULLSHIT. Well done and reasoned.

  13. LCforevah on November 5, 2010 at 11:10

    My goodness what a weaselly clip from Nightline! “it’s likely bad for you to cut out all gluten” really? This was a line from the interviewer after talking to the doctor, who is also speculating! Since there is no research to establish that individuals without gluten sensitivity react one way or another, then it’s just as irresponsible to say it would be bad for you as to say it would be fantastic for you.

    Not only does the doctor have abdominal fat, he has an advanced case of rosacea, which may or may not(how weaselly of me!) be diet related! I would never take dietary advice from this clown!

    One last thing. Obviously Celiacs thrive when taken off all things gluten. If they can thrive without the gluten protein, why would others need it?

    • Don Wiss on November 5, 2010 at 12:58

      Actually celiacs tend to get fat when they go off gluten. Besides the obvious of a healed gut absorbing food better, the celiac lifestyle revolves around high carb gluten-free substitutes. If you go to any celiac event the big thing is to share the gluten-free baked goodies that you have made. If you go to a celiac convention there will always be a talk by a dietitian pushing alternative grains as a component of good health. And there will always be an exhibit hall filled with vendors pushing their alternative grain based foods.

      Going paleo is a logical next step for a celiac. But if you try to interest them in the subject it falls on deaf ears.



    • LCforevah on November 5, 2010 at 13:30

      Tant pis. Starch is starch. I find that eating in a new way and not trying to replace as Hasselbeck wants to do reduces cravings.



    • Travis on November 5, 2010 at 13:36

      Yes, very weaselly. Again, here’s a puppet doctor with an agenda. My wife has celiac disease and she’s doing quite well now eating gluten-free, thank you very much Dr. Bullshit-Spewer-Probably-Sucking-Some-Corporate-Teat. I don’t have celiac, yet I’m thriving without gluten. I wonder about his corporate and funding connections. Hmmmm. Perhaps I’ll look those up. One thing is for sure, he looks mighty unhealthy.



  14. Nathaniel on November 5, 2010 at 12:57

    I think my favorite part of the paleo blogosphere is the making fun of ignorant conventional wisdom propaganda.

    Indeed, it is irresponsible and dangerous to stop eating wheat! Uhh…. uhh… B vitamins!

  15. NomadicNeill on November 5, 2010 at 13:37

    We need more pictures of Megan… for research purposes.

    But seriously I did read that she was into some kind of paleo diet.

  16. Paul on November 5, 2010 at 14:00

    as a science student, the more I talk to professors, people in the field, the more I read, the more I am just confounded by the amount of bunk science like what you mention here. Its everywhere, in every field, and the media and public just eat it up. I suppose you can’t exactly blame a majority of the public because science is science and its findings are supposed to be factual to a degree, but its still just incredible.

    heres something i was reading the other day if anyone is interested in the topic:
    “stop the avalanche of low-quality research”
    http://chronicle.com/article/We-Must-Stop-the-Avalanche-of/65890/

  17. D on November 5, 2010 at 14:07

    Businessweek’s big article is “The Rise of the Power Vegans”

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_46/b4203103862097.htm

    • Richard Nikoley on November 5, 2010 at 14:31

      My guess is that most “vegans” are huge cheaters.

      So, let them all go vegan. These power houses will mostly be exposed as frauds, or most will stop the insanity after a time.

      You can’t fool mother nature.



    • LCforevah on November 5, 2010 at 15:00

      Richard, do you remember what chapter in Lierre’s book revealed that when she told all her vegan friends that she had to go back to eating meat, some of these friends admitted they had never really given up meat?

      I remember being infuriated at the complete lack of integrity. Telling a friend you’re vegan just to go ingratiate yourself with the vegan circle of friends, and then eating meat when not with that group!



    • Richard Nikoley on November 5, 2010 at 15:15

      I recall that, but don’t recall which chapter. It would have been whichever one where she told her story about coming out of the vegan fog.



    • Dan Linehan on November 5, 2010 at 20:00

      I’m ex-vegan, so no axe to grind, but I can say without reservation that Lierre Kieth’s book is extremely off base and should not be used to characterize any vegans beyond the ones in her own bizarro, macrobiotic, self-aggrandizing, feminist, anti-porn crusader group.

      I’ve previously written at length about some of the numerous logical fallacies and blatantly false statements she has made, so I won’t repeat them again here, but suffice it to say it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some of her friends were faking their veganism — it would be par for the course with the twisted ideologies within that circle.

      I’m glad she went paleo and is feeling better now; however I also wish she had researched her book more thoroughly. The topic of the veganism versus paleo diets could use a more refined and scientific perspective.

      As far as vegans eating meat, that’s definitely a rarity. Most vegans are pretty religious about their diet, to the point of being fairly self-righteous at times. At least the dozens I’ve known, including myself when i was on the diet.



    • Bushrat on November 5, 2010 at 20:25

      “I’ve previously written at length about some of the numerous logical fallacies and blatantly false statements she has made, so I won’t repeat them again here”

      Where can I find your critique of her book?



    • Dan Linehan on November 7, 2010 at 00:33

      She uses herself as a clinical example of just how unhealthy a vegan diet can be and yet she refuses to give the reader any data on what she ate, how much she ate, or how she lived. It sounds more like she starved herself. In a recent podcast she didn’t seek treatment until she was unable to climb a flight of stairs for months. Veganism is a complete strawman for her health issues.

      Lierre consistently refers to eating a macrobiotic diet, which is quite different than a vegan diet if you read up on it. It sounds as if she was also trying to do a locavoire based macrobiotic diet, which is a whole other can of worms.

      She writes that she nearly died from a lack of tryptophan, an essential amino acid. She says it can only be found in animal protein. That’s simply not true — unless as a vegan she avoided soybeans, rice, bananas, potatoes, tomatoes, most grains, etc.

      She tried to be a locavore in Massachusetts, where you essentially can’t grow any fatty foods. She then refused to kill off the slugs while that ate her entire garden there.

      Obviously there are going to be health issues if you simply don’t eat, but that’s anorexia, not veganism.

      See also: There are a few articles on — mostly debunking the ethical arguments in the book.

      Or http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2010/03/15/correcting_the_vegetarian_myth.pdf

      Or just read the book and fact check it. It’s a bit obvious that most vegans don’t degenerate their spines or lose the ability to walk up stairs.

      I have no doubt that she starved herself of nutrients for an extremely long time, that’s just not a normal thing for a vegan to do.



    • LCforevah on November 5, 2010 at 14:55

      This is really, really, great! When these powerful men and celebrities start having health problems, the public will know. It may take a few years, but having former athletes develop mysterious ailments and then watching them have to go back to eating meat? With a little patience, this will be very good for paleo.



  18. Michael on November 5, 2010 at 14:12

    Elizabeth Hasselbeck is a hack.

    Nightlife is the shittiest faux-reporting ever. And the claim that it is dangerous not to eat gluten because of lack of B vitamins?! Only the dumbest doctor (or charlatan or whatever he is) would say something like that when gluten grains are NOT EVEN close to the richest food source of b vitamins (that honor of course goes to ANY and ALL animal products). And he even stated the only reason wheat flour has b vitamins in it is because it is FORTIFIED. Fake-doctor man, please take one moment to think about that and realize how stupid and unscientific your reasoning is.

    I like the Shape-ups ad displayed with the suntimes article. Bullshit likes to lump itself together.

    Good job with the video Richard. I love the “NO, that month is our month!” bit. Lol!

  19. Dan Hagg, MD on November 5, 2010 at 14:58

    Great stuff, Richard.

    serious bullshit in those articles/papers.
    of course, since the powers that be have spent decades cultivating the misinformation and thought control necessary to keep people fat, stupid and placated with television so that they can enrich themselves even further, this is not surprising at all.
    the anti-paleo campaigns will continue. i face it everyday with my colleagues. Today one said to me that grains and vegetables are healthy and meat makes you fat. He went on to tell me how he used to be fit and fast and thin. I asked him what his diet was in the interim since being fit and now being fat…. silence.
    well, since going paleo/gluten free and hitting crossfit or just strength training i’ve dropped my BF from >20% to 7%, increased my strength to the best it’s ever been in my life, dropped my times in the 200/400/800/1500 and 5k to lower than when i ran track in high school; am growing back my hair where i was balding; my gray hair is back to black; dandruff gone; joint aches gone; acne gone…. i’ll be 40 soon.
    my colleagues, “wheat bellies and muffin tops” all around. 3 people have “bought in” to my advice. they are also now thin and in the best shape of their lives.

    to the powers that be, i say screw you and thank you very much for the fine job f***ing up the country.

    keep up the good work!

    • Richard Nikoley on November 5, 2010 at 15:05

      I will keep it up, Dan.

      It is especially gratifying to see regular input from the MDs and PhDs out there who have seen the light themselves.

      One of my favorite things to tell people in person who inquire after what Im up to with the blog, given I have not been annointed by higher powers is to let them know that I have a number of MD and PhD readers and commenters.

      Shuts them up every time.



    • Dan Hagg, MD on November 5, 2010 at 18:15

      annointed. that’s funny. there is a lot of that going around…



    • Bill RN on November 6, 2010 at 11:03

      And you’ve got some nurses (at least this one) that read. And I’ve definitely seen the light within the last 2 years. It still is a struggle to convince people that their “healthy” eating is what is causing most of their health problems.



    • Nathaniel on November 6, 2010 at 19:53

      Are you even allowed to recommmend the paleo diet while at work? I figured the hospitals would fear being sued for such advice.



    • Emily Deans, M.D. on November 7, 2010 at 06:29

      Nathaniel – being sued is a real concern. I can’t really blame primary care doctors for prescribing statins – statins are in every standard of practice guidelines, and 1/2 of your patients will die of heart attack or stroke, more or less. So if you don’t prescribe (or at least heavily push) the statin and patient X dies of a heart attack, patient X’s family’s lawyer will have you in front of the jury, saying “Now, doctor, of course you were aware of the standard of practice guidelines for the treatment of high cholesterol…” And you might say “well, the data shows that only men with previous heart attacks and people with previous strokes seem to live longer taking a statin…” and Lawyer for Patient X’s family says, “But Patient X is dead!” And there you are, having “killed” patient X, and muttering on the stand about data.

      Beyond that, with computerized records and insurance “quality assurance initiatives,” primary care doctors get rated on certain measures – are you checking HbA1Cs on your patients with diabetes and are those measures getting better? Are your diabetic patients on a statin? If you don’t meet a certain standard, you will be dropped from the top tier of recommended doctors, or miss out on bonuses, or whatever. Some of these things are good – diabetics should be closely monitored, for example. But Standard of Care is becoming more and more about cookbook medicine, with little consideration for individual differences.

      Most primary care docs have worked hard and voluntarily went into a less lucrative part of the profession, and they want you and your family to be healthy, and they want to be there for you, and they want the best for you. But the system makes that almost impossible to do, sometimes!

      When I discuss paleolithic nutrition with my patients, I make it very clear that these are not standard national nutritional guidelines, nor is paleolithic nutrition FDA approved for treating any condition, and that each person should look into it for him or herself, and I document very carefully.



    • Helen on November 7, 2010 at 13:08

      I’m just sitting here shaking my head in horror, sorrow and disbelief at the way things are. What a mess we’ve gotten ourselves into (collectively speaking).



    • Emily Deans, M.D. on November 5, 2010 at 17:23

      Heh – I know, Dan. I’m 36 and I get carded every time I try to buy a bottle of wine. No gray hair, no wrinkles.



  20. Jordan on November 5, 2010 at 18:52

    Hey Richard,

    Just wanted to let you know that I am really enjoying your new videos and I agree, you are getting better every time! I know that you made this point already (in another video) but I love that you really apply yourself and your opinions to your material. I too am sick of paleo bloggers only blogging about “tips” or “top ten lists.” Robb Wolf always makes the point that this should never ever turn into a cult and I think that having outstanding personalities like yourself help keep it “real” and not just a formulaic or fad diet. This isn’t magic, just the truth. Keep fighting the good fight.

    Best,

    Jordan

  21. Dan Linehan on November 5, 2010 at 20:05

    As far as Obama’s diet, I think he might lean more paleo than vegetarian. During his campaign, he supposedly ate nothing but salmon and broccoli for most of the time.

    I can’t blame Michelle for wanting to get more whole foods in school lunches either. Hopefully the focus is on removing processed foods — that could actually be a fairly significant shift in youth culture.

  22. Mallory on November 6, 2010 at 10:05

    a good post as usual!! hilarious as it should be….starch is a must ahahha.

    i did notice the babyfood a couple years ago only because it was the only food that came with one ingredients and no artificial crap/byproducts haha. first time i had sweet taters it was baby food cuz only ingredient was sweet taters….same as i added other vegetables coming off the ridiculous zero carb year haha

  23. O Primitivo on November 7, 2010 at 11:20
  24. O Primitivo on November 7, 2010 at 14:22

    Megan Fox is not on the Paleo Diet, she’s drinking beer on this video -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXyJofE9YBg Anyway, I still like her;))))

  25. Steven Sashen on November 21, 2010 at 21:11

    Here’s a question I’ve never thought to ask:

    As much as I like the *idea* of Paleo… I’ve never liked meat. Not since the day I was born.

    You know how some people say “Oh, I’m craving a good steak/hamburger/etc.” ? … well, that thought has never crossed my mind, ever.

    I’m okay with dairy. And I eat eggs. And about 10 years ago, I started eating fish. Turns out the ones I like are the kosher ones — deep sea fish, not bottom feeders or shellfish. But canned tuna or salmon make me want to puke, no matter what you do to them.

    Any thoughts?

    • Richard Nikoley on November 22, 2010 at 15:11

      How about chicken, turkey or game birds? And have you tried freshwater fish, like trout?

      As far as canned tuna goes, I but from High Seas Tuna. All line caught, smaller, packed in the can fresh with no water or oil, and I find it fabulous. In fact, I love it right out of the can, with nothing, and I even consume the natural juices from the fish.

      http://www.highseastuna.com/

      But, all in all if you can do eggs, dairy and fish, I see no problem. Just try to get enough of it.

      Oh, how about bacon? Who doesn’t love bacon?



    • Steven Sashen on November 22, 2010 at 15:39

      Trout I like. The problem with fish, of course, is that it’s SO much more expensive than meat. If I ate fish every day, I’d be looking at $4-500/month.

      Birds… no, never liked them either.

      Bacon is, in fact, the only meat I ever liked… but that was 35 years ago. I tried some recently… didn’t really do it for me.

      And the only issue with eggs/dairy is that to get enough protein from those requires a LOT.

      Are there some good guidelines for being a non-meat-eating Paleo person somewhere?

      FWIW, it’s not lost on me that when I was in the best shape ever was when I was a carb-ingesting machine (very little protein), but was working out a lot (gymnastics, biking, aikido). Makes me wonder if Paleo and I are really cut out for each other.

      Oh, and only because you’re recommending it, I’ll try the High Seas Tuna… but if it smells/tastes like canned fish, you’ll be hearing about it! 😉



    • Richard Nikoley on November 22, 2010 at 18:42

      If you don’t like it, I’ll buy your remaining stash.

      Otherwise, not sure what to recommend except perhaps trying meat from an ethnic perspective, i.e., Indian or Thai. Like an Indian lamb curry. Or Thai Masaman beef. In this case, it’s pure texture. the spices overwhelm the flavor.

      And who knows, if you can get past it the nutrition itself might give you a renewed taste for other things.



    • Steven Sashen on November 22, 2010 at 20:36

      I placed my order. Fingers are crossed.

      Oh, and it’s as much the texture of meat that I never liked as it is the flavor.

      Some day, I’ll tell you the story of storing pork chops in my cheeks and then having to “go to the bathroom” to spit it out. Oh, I guess that’s the story 😉



    • Don Wiss on November 22, 2010 at 21:45

      You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.



    • Steven Sashen on November 23, 2010 at 08:07

      If he doesn’t like water, why would he?



  26. Jumping the Thanksgiving Shark | Evolvify on November 24, 2010 at 20:06

    […] I don’t mean that pejoratively. The first time I heard from him via evolvify was a comment thanking me for sparing him from spending time eviscerating the inanity of President Obama’s vegan advocate personal trainer, Cornell […]

  27. […] marketing and garnered any number of cites. A few people — notably Tom Noughton at Fat Head, Richard at Free the Animal, and Mark Sisson — have taken umbrage with the comments of the main author: Dr. J. David […]

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