Just a quick blurb before I head off to Tahoe for a coupla days.
I just checked my stats for my Amazon affiliate sales, and since I began blogging about Resistant Starch, 75 orders of Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch, 24-Ounce (Pack of 4)
Anyway, just thought I’d pass that along. It’s actually a lot higher number because many have sourced the starch at a local store and internationally as well. I think it’s safe to say we’ve at least a couple of hundred people signed up.
I think it’s real science. I think it’s gold-standard science because in the end, the only thing that matters is if it benefits you! …So if you’ll excuse me, I’m having myself a little laf over all the uppity “science” bloggers out there, whilst passing on a little Resistant Starch-induced fart in their general direction.
Anyone else want to sign up? Click here
Paul Casimir 
A.b. Dada 
Allie0426
When I ordered it a while back it was $13.56 with my prime account, now it is $11.52. The more people order the cheaper it gets? Is that how it works? I have contacted Amazon in the past when a price dropped ($86 dropped to $65) and was able to get the difference refunded, if anyone wants to try fiddling with their past order.
As far as n=1 goes, the only difference for me has been somewhat better sleep, which is a big deal to me, even though it doesn’t seem profoundly better. Before, I’d rate my sleep as ‘poor’, and now I’d rate it ‘sufficient’. I don’t have issues others are having. My diet is primal + dairy + potatoes and rice.
Just wanted to check out the new comment system…
At first I was reluctant to recommend Bob’s Red Mill as I didn’t want anyone to think I worked for them or something–I have been accused of working for Ingredion/National Starch several times! What I like about Bob’s is they took the time to explain all the questions I had about their manufacturing process and I was convinced it’s a good, safe product. When I harvest potatoes this fall I am going to see how hard it is to make a pound of my own starch.
As to the new comments–I REALLY liked the way all new comments used to go to the bottom of the page, saved lots of time hunting for new comments. I also liked the way Richard’s comments were a different color. Hopefully this new system will be as easy.
I got mine at a local grocery store! I am quite excited about this whole thing actually. Have a great week end!!!
I got mine at local grocery. Been discussing off-line, but the gist is that my n=1 confirms with BG measurements and ketostix that PS, both as part of meal and alone, even works within ketogenic diet (which my dad follows as part of his cancer treatment).
Meanwhile, No TMI gastro effects. I don’t get what all the fuss is about, whether from the general direction of Monty Pythons’ french knight or otherwise :)
Apologies if double post – had to create an a/c and it seems to have del’d my comment.
I’m using local bought Encona “Farina” which is sub labelled as potato starch. Stir it into raw milk and it tastes great.
Sleep seems to be less disturbed.
TMI factor – movement on waking in the morning now, previously nothing until after my mid morning coffee upon which an impressive movement would commence with great urgency.
Encona Farina is perfect. Seems to be a UK thing.
I think it would be safe to assume it’s OK. Could you send us label info (brand, etc…) If you mix the product with cold water, it should just form a paste and settle out eventually, if it forms any kind of clear gel–it’s no good! When mixed with very hot water it will form a clear gel.
AS seems to be caused by the gut microbe Klebsiella pneumoniae. I don’t know if this guy feeds on RS or not. Seems like the best course would be to treat it with aggressive, doctor-ordered means, ie. antibiotics?, and when cleared up, begin using RS to regrow healthy microbes. That’s just a wild-ass guess, though.
Early in the RS series we said that RS is probably not good for people with certain diseases, like SIBO and IBD until those problems are dealt with first.
I actually had B-RM on hand already from using it once to make a “THAT’S NOT PALEO” recipe of some sort that required a crumbly texture.
Started doing kefir + B-RM on Sunday. Slept really well Monday and Tuesday nights. Not so well last night, but I live in a neighborhood where everyone’s idea of a good time is lighting off noise makers until 5am.
No noticeably gas issues, no bloating.
So glad to see that, I was starting to think I’m odd to have no gut issues on first taking PS. In fact, in a series of experiments in last 3 days, I’ve had as much as 10 Tbsp of Bob’s RM in 25 hrs with no issues at all.
I wonder if history of plenty of inulin and other plant fibre in diet (no grains) may make a difference in how gut first reacts to RS. Do you normally eat some of the top veggies for that fiber, like onion, garlic, artichoke (jerusalem), dandelion greens or other leafy greens?
I like leafy greens, but I never eat it when I’m alone. My food history is mostly junk food until the age of 25 when I went from skinny-fat to obese, and at 31 I trimmed back down low carb style.
So my stomach has no real history other than garbage.
Oh well, there goes that armchair theory! :)
I just bought a bag of Red Mill Unmodified Potato Starch and a bag of Red Mill Potato Flour. The flour looks a shade whiter than the starch. Are both of these RS? Will either one work for this experiment?
C.O. – From what we’ve all read, potato flour is made from cooked potatoes, and not a valid source of RS. http://www.bobsredmill.com/potato-flour.html reading about them, it says ‘made from 100% dehydrated potatoes’ I assume they mean they cook them first, then dehydrate, but I could be mistaken.
Presumably, if they are made from cooked potatoes, mixing each product with warm, not hot, water would yield different results, the flour forming more of a sticky paste.
Not much help, I know–I’ll try to call Bob’s next week.
CO, do the test. Heaping teaspoon in a glass, just enough cold water, about a 1/2 cup, to make a dissolved slurry. Into the microwave for a minute each. Tell me if there’s any difference in result.
Ok, but I’ll have to use the stovetop. I don’t own a microwave.
Ok, I tried it. The unmodified potato starch went into suspension, and behaved a lot like corn starch. The potato flour was stringy, not easy to suspend, and behaved like snot. After heating, the unmodified starch became gel-like, while the potato flour was much the same. I’ll post photos if anyone is interested.
I called Bob’s Red Mill yesterday–they confirmed our suspicions and C.O. showed how to test it.
Potato Flour is made from cooked and then dehydrated potatoes.
I also found this from the King Arthur Flour website:
“Potato Flour
Potato Flour is made from potatoes, including their skins. The potatoes are cooked, skins on, then dried and ground finely. It can be used as a thickener to some degree (does not thicken as well as Potato Starch, however) and in some baked goods, as it retains moisture.
Potato Starch is often also called Potato Flour. Don’t confuse the two, however, as right now somewhere in the world some poor soul is staring at a disaster on the stove owing to the confusion.
Potato Flour is heavier in weight than Potato Starch; Potato Flour has a potato flavour to it; Potato Starch has no discernible flavour;
Potato Starch can thicken a greater amount of liquid than Potato Flour can; if you try to use Potato Flour instead to thicken an identical amount of liquid, you’d end up with a gloopy mess. Substitutes If a recipe calls for Potato Flour and you don’t have any, leave out anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 cup of the total flour in the recipe (if the recipe uses less than 2 cups of flour, leave out 1/4 cup; over 2 cups,
leave out 1/2 cup of flour) and swap in for that amount of flour left the same amount of instant mashed potato flakes.
Did 4 tbs PS daily with LCHF for many weeks with lots of farting and no change in body composition then switched to a potato hack with 4 tbs PS daily two weeks ago this Sunday and have watched my body fat drop by several % points effortlessly. And little or no gas. While I like the more shredded look I can’t keep up eating potatoes forever …
Tell us more. What exactly were you eating in the LCHF diet? What were you eating in the potato hack?
LCHF before potato hack consisted of one meal a day Tuesday-Friday (Mondays I fasted) of 6 oz of grass-fed beef, coconut oil, vegetables and some nuts. Saturdays 2-3 meals but strictly Paleo. Sunday I would eat more as well and maybe even go outside the Paleo box. During the current potato hack I take BCAA and a liver supplement. And of course I take PS before bed. Also, I should mention I am taking the PHD supplements full on now.
The next logical step in all this was to combine the potato hack with potato starch–good job! Glad you are trying it. I have been thinking for quite some time it would be the ideal combo.
I’d like to know your results when you do combine PS with the PH b/c I don’t have any experience with the PH only. Certainly PS combined with the PH *seems* effective but I have no way of knowing the PH alone would have been just as effective.
Hi, Kayumochi,
Just clarifying that by “potato hack” you’re referring to eating only potatoes, right? There have been many variations of it and I’m trying to figure out how to get past my own plateau. I have had much of the same… have done the PS at 4tblsp with lots of fartage and no body comp change (using LCHF also). Will certainly flip over to potato diet (only potatoes) to get past plateau, but just want to make sure you’re talking about only potatoes and potato starch.
Thanks a bunch!
Allie
That’s right Allie, just potatoes. Twice in 2 weeks in put a little oil on them and that seemed to slow down the fat loss. As I said, the gas was minimal while taking PS during the potato hack but had plenty of gas eating a simple Paleo meal. Don’t understand that at all. I have decided to do the potato hack with PS a third week but took a break from it yesterday with a large meal of meat and fat. Was the best thing I have ever eaten after 2 weeks of nothing but potatoes.
Thanks, Kayumochi… I think I’m going to switch over to potatoes with the caveat of adding 1 whey protein shake in the morning (with PS) as I workout out pretty hard and pretty regularly. Will report back as to progress/results/any additional hacks that might arise. Thanks for your quick response :)
Hi!
So I’ve just completed day 5 and I’ve lost 6.6 pounds! This is amazing as I’ve been losing/gaining the same 2 pounds for a couple months now, after losing a bunch on paleo. I have not done the protein shake as I’d originally planned because I’ve felt like I haven’t needed it. I’m working out lighter (resistance training 15 minutes, 2x week and HIIT a couple times a week) and have seen no drop in either energy or strength.
I’ve been eating anywhere from 6-900 calories a day of plain potato (occasionally adding a drop or 2 of trader joes organic ketchup, a bit of homemade bone broth from a wild turkey carcass, but mostly just salt and bragg’s acv). I’m never hungry, could care less about food really (even though I’m cooking on occasion for someone else) and just eat my potatoes when I’m hungry. Oh, and 200 grams of potato a day are eaten raw for the RS (that’s 50g of RS if I’m not mistaken). I was a tiny bit gassy at first, but that has all gone by the wayside now–my belly is happy. Taking a minute amount of supplements (magnesium, DIMM to transport excess estrogen, Vitamin K and selenium) and really feeling amazing. Funny, I could do this forever I think, lol.
Additionally, I’ve been throwing in some cold thermogenics via a backyard pool in the early morning (a la Ray Cronise, not Jack Kruse… I like the “cool exposure” more than the “freeze your ass off exposure” methods).
Anyway, it’s nice to feel like I’ve busted through a tough plateau, and in a big way! I’ve always had relatively slow fat loss…I cannot ever recall losing 6 1/2 pound in 5 days. I’ll check back in a few more days. Hope all is well with the folks on this wonderful board!
The longest I’ve done is 2 weeks. I always tell people if they do longer, take a week or two in between to fill up on liver, eggs, and other good stuff.
After doing the potato hack a couple times, I realized the ease of which fat can be lost–just buckle down for a week or two and watch it disappear. To think I spent a year dieting to lose 10 pounds that I could have lost in 2 weeks makes me laugh.
Knowing I can lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks means I should never get outside of a 5-8 pound band year-round. My plan has been to do the potato hack again if I ever see 180 on the scale, so far I have kept below 175 very easily just eating pretty good paleo with no calorie/macro counting.
Thanks for the report!
I am in! (from Denmark) It is day 3. No ‘fartage’. 1 tablespoon with Kefir (homemade w/ raw milk) in a.m. and 1 tablespoon in evening with Kefir.
1. So far, lost 5 pounds (as of a.m. day 3). I can stand to lose a LOT – but have been stalled forever on LCHF – to the point of giving up, adding in all kinds of shit – and weight staying more or less the same (but health and energy levels crashing). Wheat and wine are just so damned addictive! Stopping those in conjunction with adding the PS. So far no crazy cravings, even for the alcohol. Strange!
2. Interesting: my kefir has always, from the second I drink it, given me instant heartburn lasting about 1 hour. I have suffered with this, drinking it while thinking of the health benefits. With the PS, no heartburn at all. What is that about?
3. Blood sugar – morning 1 = 5.8, morning 3 = 5.0. After meals, in between these readings.
4. Sleep – horrible. Very light, lots of dreams where you are kind of present in them – and controlling them a bit (like when you take a light nap). I normally sleep great so this is annoying, but I will bear with it.
5. Headache – on and off. Sudden when it comes. I usually never have headaches.
6. TMI – as usual…..
something with my profile….
Dude, paleo is spiking my libido into serious overdrive. I’m nearly 45 and I’m hornier than when I was a teenager. I’m at it about twice a day on average. This would be fine except I am on my own without a girl friend. It’s actually got to the point where my man tackle is in pain from being thrashed so much! This is killing me dude.
I finally watched the video–very good! I hope everyone watches it–only 3 minutes and change.
What I have been wondering about, this second-meal effect, is with a continuous feeding of RS, does the effect compound? Leading to better and better insulin sensitivity or is there a break-even point?
Hi guys, been doing this for a while now. My sleep is much improved, deeper and less disturbed. But the gas factory does not seem to decrease (but the fartage seems to reach a max during the 2 hours after ingestion so I take it before bed time). As to hunger, I don’t know, I eat only one meal every day so I am not the right person to address satiety.
John – Did you really mean ’50g of cooked rice’? That’s not very much to spike blood sugar, maybe 10g of carbs there. I’d think a better test would be 250g of cooked rice–about 50g carbs.
Anyway, unfortunately, no matter how you slice it, rice isn’t a big source of RS. Uncooked rice contains up to about about 30% RS by weight depending on type, cooked is 0% – 5%, cooked and cooled has roughly 0% – 10% RS by weight. Repeated heating and cooling cycles may increase it slightly, but with rice, it seems to be very ‘rice-type’ dependent. Look at a GI chart for rice, the GI can vary between 50-100+. If you find a rice that doesn’t spike your BG, even at high levels, it’s probably more to do with the GI of that rice than RS.
The RS of a starch is determined by the size, shape, and natural packaging of the starch granules. Shame, but rice is a poorer source that the others we’ve been discussing (potato starch, dry plantains, legumes, green bananas, etc…)
Seems there would be a couple of ways to use uncooked rice for an RS source. You could soak it in warm-hot water, under 140F to soften it up…add it to cottage cheese or something. Put it in a coffee grinder and make rice flour out of it, stir it into things.
Hi Tatertot!
i keep frigging around with looking at this colon cancer- RS issue from different angles. I wanted to learn more about the rice ( roughly 50g) in my sushi lunch . Getting through 50g of half hard refrigerated cooked rice on a boring plate is enough to put any one off. 250g would be torture!
I have written to Prof Xu in China to see if he has a RS3 value for refrigerated cooked rice.
One notion that I am interested in is to spread out the 10g plug pulse of potato starch or RS3 starch though a slow release/timed release matrix that might better suit my little e coli farm animals to chomp through . Parboiled potato is a pain to prepare daily, Richard’s idea of cottage cheese sounds good.
So far my only response that I can feel ( apart from the slug feeling early on) is an oiled feeling on the facial skin after about 3 hours after ingestion- maybe just hope.!
When I become CEO of RS, Inc., my business motto will be: “They come for the glucose control, but stay for the colon cancer prevention.”
I think if a person is not worried about insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, sleep, eating, or weight and just wants to have healthy, happy gut flora that resists disease and cancer, then you should just actively seek out RS sources in your daily life and include them as much as possible.
Simple things like sushi a couple times a week, a cold potato now and then, a slice of raw potato when the situation presents itself. Buy a bunch of green bananas once a week and eat one every morning or evening. Eat beans. Eat corn tortillas. Eat lots of raw veggies, especially onions, leeks, and garlic. Keep some potato starch on-hand; use it as a thickener when needed (not for RS, it just makes a good thickener!) and put a spoonful in a smoothy every now and then.
This sounds easy, but it is pretty non-typical of the average paleo eater who actively seeks to avoid most carbs.
For a life-long pursuit, find simple things that pack a big RS punch and keep them in your food rotation. I would say that if the only RS source you ate from was cold rice, you are not getting enough, unless your diet is packed with plant fiber.
And, here’s a study I just found comparing cooked rice to cooked and cooled. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296917/
They cooked rice, measured the RS at 9%, then cooled and heated it 3 times, increasing the RS to 13%. That’s by weight of cooked rice I believe. Which seems pretty high, actually.
They add this: “The content of RS in cooked rice varies depending on the sample preparation and method used for the analysis. RS content in rice cooked in the southern U.S. is 9-10% , whereas another study that used a traditional cooking method reported RS content < 3%."
So, I guess with rice, you just have to hope there is some RS in there, and that by eating it cold, you'll get a bit more RS. Still, if there was 13% RS in 100g of cold rice, that's about the same as eating a green banana (15g).
Anyway, interesting study I linked if you are into that sort of thing.
OK, one more, since you like the cancer prevention parts.
This ominously titled study: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/67/2/322.full.pdf “Limited effect of consumption of uncooked (RS2) or retrograded(RS3) resistant starch on putative risk factors for colon cancer in healthy men”
Sounds like a big bust for RS. But read the study…the tested a couple of guys eating 32g/day of RS for a WHOLE WEEK! Yes, 7 days. In the end they conclude:
“In conclusion, the present findings do not support the initial hypothesis that 1 wk supplementation of a habitual high-fiber diet with 32 g/d of either RS2 or RS3 from high-amylose corn-starch compared with an equivalent amount of glucose positively affects putative risk factors for colon cancer in healthy men. No differences were found between RS2 and RS3. Neither does this study support a difference in fermentability between RS2 and RS3 as evaluated by breath-hydrogen excretion. No information could be obtained about the colonic location of fermentation of RS2 and RS3 nor about the magnitude of butyrate production in situ. Both factors may be important regarding colon cancer risk. In addition, because consumption of RS2 and RS3 increased stool mass, a protective but perhaps limited effect of long-term RS consumption toward colon cancer is still feasible.”
thanks Tatertot, CEO, RS inc!
They did well didn’t they, a paper after a 1 week study- they could get 52 papers on their CV at that rate.
I’ve used a bag and a half of Bob’s potato starch in hopes of reducing my fasting blood glucose. Roughly half of that over two weeks, I stopped, then restarted with about 4 TBL mixed into yogurt and/or buttermilk.
Nada. Just a lot of farts.
(And if you want powerful, memorable dreams, consume a few TBL a day of MCT oil. Wow!)
Bayou Boy – What is your FBG history?
I was prediabetic a few years back, with FBG in the 130’s and an A1C of 6.2. A few months of ‘doctor’s (CW) orders’, ie. oatmeal, whole grains, got my A1C down to 5.6, which is still pre-diabetic, but just barely. He wanted me on diabetes drugs. I wanted no part of that, found paleo and Mark’s Daily Apple and Free The Animal, and within 2 months my FBG was in the 110’s and my A1C has been around 5 for last 2 years.
Last summer, after 2 years of LC paleo, my FBG crept up to 120’s again. I started on the safe starches and RS around the first of this year. My FBG dropped to 110’s with safe starches, and 90’s with RS. Some days, I may have an FBG of 115, but it will drop 5 points or so an hour until I eat at noon and be in the low 90’s when I eat.
I had an A1C done last week, it was 4.7, which is considered low! never had this problem before. I’m thinking maybe I need to lay off the potato starch a bit and plan on going to 1-2TBS a day for the next 3-4 months.
FBG is such a fickle measure. It doesn’t seem to correlate well with A1C and it can change depending on sleep, previous meals, and time.
Thanks for the reports! It what we need. Good and bad.
I’m 67, and my FBC has always been right around 100. I’d not had any blood work done for two years, and then in January, I was at 130! Since my health plan covers diabetes supples for almost nothing, he got me a glucometer and strips, and an A1c. The latter, which sort of give an average for three months, was on target for 130. (I don’t recall the exact number.)
I became the human pincushion, watching the numbers, ;looking for patterns. I did a 75g starch test using grits, and it was pretty gruesome. Took like five or six hours to return to normal. My high numbers weren’t out of bounds, but it was more like not getting enough insulin into the plumbing. Pancreatic beta cell failure?
I did a lot of research and found solid, peer reviewed evidence that cinnamon tea is effective in fighting high BC! Well, sure enough, after a few days my FBG was 95-105. I stopped the frequent testing and just checked in once in awhile………..and my FBG kept creeping up, despite the RS experiments.
I’ll probably make some more tea today and I’ll report back in. (The secret recipe is 8-10 sticks smashed in a towel, one gallon of water, brew, cool, refrigerate. Do not use powdered cinnamon.)
This is amazing. I looked it up–real thing! Well-studied, too. Seems you need 1-3g of cinnamon a day for lowering BG and cholesterol. Seems to work in everyone tested. Some studies were using cinnamon extract, cinnamon powder, and cinnamon tea as you described.
Glad you found something that works for you. If BG is your only concern, cinnamon sounds like an easy solution.
Thanks for sharing!
For example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633804
RESULTS:
After 40 days, all three levels of cinnamon reduced
the mean fasting serum glucose (18-29%), triglyceride (23-30%), LDL cholesterol (7-27%), and total cholesterol (12-26%) levels; no significant changes were noted in the placebo groups. Changes in HDL cholesterol were not significant.
I’ve been including Cinnamon in my RS smoothie at night. I don’t have any blood sugar issues, but it makes the flavor more palatable. I switch back and forth between the Vietnamese stuff and the Ceylon cinnamon. I wonder if one is any better at the glucose control than the other.
Well, figured I better jump in with my N=1. 27 year old non-diabetic mostly moderate carb paleo’ish. Been varying degrees of LC, strict paleo since January of last year, lost 85lbs in the first 12 months and have been Indian giving 10lbs since then, couldn’t break below 215 for the life of me.
I started with taking about 2TBS of BRM PS for a week and have since upped to 4TPS for the last 4 days, I also added in Kefir 2 days ago.. First few days were pretty rough as far as gas goes but that has settled down. Sleep has been good, two nights of very vivid dreams but mostly no dreams/can’t remember them. I have noticed that I want to sleep more, I usually get 8 hours. Yesterday jumped on the scale 214.8, this morning 213.4… I like that. I have noticed an increase desire for carbs since starting, so I added some form of potato twice a day(lunch is usually cooked and cooled) since bumping up to 4TBS. Overall calorie intake up(wasn’t seriously low before), carb up, fat up, protein the same. No BG numbers for you, but even when I was over 300lbs fasting BG was spot on.
One other interesting thing I have noticed is the complete lack of hangovers since starting RS. 3 days of pretty heavy drinking over last weekend and woke up feeling tiptop even after just 5 hours of sleep on the third day.
1 week n=1 update. Lost 7 pounds. I also found out that if I drink the PS with anything but kefir, I have massive intestinal eruptions (tried kombucha, raw milk, water). Kefir+PS = no problems. However, my sleep was horrible. Very light, constant awake/asleep dreams. I have moved the PS to morning and afternoon now and that seems to have done the trick. Last, but not least, I have sat thru all kinds of drinking going on (it’s grill and vacation time here) without wanting a drink at all. This is nothing short of miraculous – and has never, ever occurred for me before.
Oh – and morning blood sugar is now around 4.4 – 4.6. I’ll take that too :-)
videos on cinnamon,,,,,,http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-safer-cinnamon/…………………,http://nutritionfacts.org/video/update-on-cinnamon-for-blood-sugar-control/
The chemical in ordinary cinnamon that is potentially toxic is not water soluble, per my chemistry research. So, consuming large amounts directly could lead to problems, but as a tea, it won’t.
mmmm, not sure what happened to me but I experienced 2 bouts of really bad crap within 2 weeks. I usually have one meal a day, and did not deviate from my staple foods (eggs, meat, fish, a little dairy, tubers, fruits, some veggies here and there). Yesterday, I had cold potatoes with smoked lamb meat, and a few other items, nothing weird. I had 50g of PS before the meal … later in the evening, I was so gassy and eventually, I had to run to the bathroom. I won’t describe the outcome … It happened about 2 weeks ago as well. Before my PS supplement (going on ~ 3 weeks now), I had no such episodes, eating paleo / primal for 8 months without any digestion issues. I am a little confused now … I skipped a day or two supplementing with PS during these 3 weeks. Apart from that, I don’t know, it did not change things much except a better sleep maybe, and I seem to have gained some weight as a small spare tire has grown around my waist lately (I noticed it last week – very weird) … I think I am gonna drop the experiment for a while and resume my pre-PS WOE.