I have a new report of results I’m posting about in advance of hitting up the topic of Resistant Starch next week, by means of some pretty interesting, well controlled and documented self experiments by two readers working in concert. For those just showing up or who haven’t been interested so far, here’s a list of my previous posts on the topic of Resistant Starch, in chronological order and current comment count—because there’s a wealth of info and self experimentation results in the comments.
- Prepare for the “Resistant Starch” Assimilation; Resistance is Futile (180 Comments)
- Resistant Starch: 4-Letter Word? Nope. Goal: Create Mashed Potatoes A Diabetic Can Eat Every Day (452 Comments)
- Resistant Starch: Now We’re Getting Somewhere (68 Comments)
- Resistant Starch: Now We’re Getting Somewhere, Part 2 (35 links to research) (127 Comments)
- The FTA Resistant Starch Trial: N=75 +++ (58 Comments)
- Beans and the Second Meal Effect: Resistant Starch (36 Comments)
- Low GI Mashed Potatoes! and the Resistant Starch Content of Foods (24 Comments)
So, the subject in this case is a woman, age 72, Type 2 for many years, overweight all of her adult life, on meds with supplemental slow and fast acting insulin, as needed. She maintains a very low carb diet that’s mostly paleo in terms of avoiding grains and processed foods. While she has pretty reasonable postprandial control (likely via the LC regime), fasting blood glucose has always been a problem (170-190 mg/DL upon rising).
She began using Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch
I have been on the potato starch since a couple of weeks ago. I just upped my daily intake to two tablespoons a day. So far no problems with excess gas. Last week I was able to reduce the amount of insulin by a small amount and today I was able to reduce again. I think combination of my being very careful with what I am eating and the potato starch.
For me, the best way to take it is to put in about two nice size gulps of water and down it. No taste no problem at all and very simple which I like. No preparation, no clean up.
It seemed the RS was helping with both postprandial response as well as baseline insulin requirements; but when I asked, not much going on in the fasting BG area. Still high; always high.
So, shortly after I published Beans and the Second Meal Effect, I suggested she try adding some beans to the mix. Before I share her results though, let’s review Dr. Michael Greger’s excellent 3.5 minute video that shows the result we might expect, both in terms of postprandial control and fasting glucose levels.
The full text of the first study he mentions—from 1982!!!—is right here:
Slow release dietary carbohydrate improves second meal tolerance
David J. A. Jenkins, D.M., Thomas M. S. Wolever, B.M., Rodney H. Taylor, MR. C. P., Christopher Grffiths, B.A., Kathleen Krzeminska, B.A., James A. Lawrie, B.A., Carolyn M. Bennett, David V. Goff, M.Biol., David L. Sarson, B.Sc., and Stephen R. Bloom, M.D.
ABSTRACT Breakfasts of lentils or wholemeal bread of identical carbohydrate content were taken by seven healthy volunteers. The lentils produced a significant 71% (p <0.001) reduction in the blood glucose area and flattened the plasma insulin and gastric inhibitory polypeptide responses by comparison with the bread. In addition, the lentil breakfast was followed by a significantly flatter blood glucose response to the standard bread hunch which followed 4 h hater (by 38%, p < 0.01). The blood glucose pattern was mimicked by feeding the bread breakfast slowly over the 4 h before lunch. Giving a bread breakfast containing a quarter of the carbohydrate reduced the breakfast glucose profile but resulted in a significantly impaired blood glucose response to lunch (168% of control, p < 0.01). These results, together with breath hydrogen studies, performed on a separate group of four volunteers, indicate that the flattened response to lentils is not due to carbohydrate malabsorption. Show release or “hente” carbohydrate foods such as lentils may form a useful part of the diets of those with impaired carbohydrate tolerance.
~~~
So, after a week of adding 1/4 to 1/2 cup of beans in the morning, here’s her report.
Thought I would let you know that since starting on the potato starch and then adding beans once a day, my morning BG is down from 170 to 190 to the high 130 to low 140. The beans I started with was leftover lentil soup. I just ate the lentils, not the meat, potatoes or carrots. Today I made my first pot of beans.
I have been eating about 1/4 to 1/2 a cup in the morning only.
I think starch-o-phobes, carb-o-phobes, and even paleo legume-o-phobes have some ‘splainin’ to do …To. My. Mom!
More in the coming days. In the meantime, another article you might be interested in: Eating More Legumes May Improve Glycemic Control, Lower Estimated Heart Disease Risk.
“These findings linking legume consumption to both improved glycemic control and reduced CHD risk are particularly important because type 2 DM is increasing most rapidly in the urban environments of populations in which bean intake has traditionally been high (e.g. India, Latin America, the Pima Indians of Arizona),” the authors conclude. “Support for the continued use of such foods in traditional bean-eating communities, together with their reintroduction into the Western diet, could therefore be justified even if the effect on glycemia is relatively small, given the magnitude of the problem and the need for acceptable dietary options, especially those options that may also have a BP and cardiovascular advantage.”
I’m gradually coming to suspect that a combination of RS via potato starch and some measure of properly prepared legumes per day—a cup or two, perhaps, in total—might be the closest thing to a blood sugar control silver bullet (with concomitant slow fat loss long term) we’re gonna find.
Brad 
moorerulz 
John 
tatertot 
Did she eat anything else in the morning besides the beans/lentils. Any other changes in diet during this time period?
Good video. I take my lentils orally at the moment. I am yet to try rectal administration of lentils.
Brad
Nope, still same LC except for 1/4 to 1/2 cup do lentils in the morning, plus the RS and I think she’s up to the 30g 4T of that daily, now. There is confounding going on, however, we can be sure the beans are causing zero probs and it’s more likely they are helping.
Did 2 Tbs of potato starch/day for two months—definitely a second meal effect and lowered bs spikes in general, which is good, but the voluminous gas never went away. Have since cut it back out for 2 weeks—gas stopped immediately, even with continued FODMAPs, sauerkraut, yogurt, etc.
I’m on board with RS and believe in the potential, but I’d like to figure out a way to integrate it with out massive, constant fartage.
Any idea if tapioca starch is just as good? The wholesale price of tapioca starch is about $500 per metric tonne. The potential for mark up as a supplement at the retail level looks good.
Graham
I’m going to tell my own story but the gist is that initially, the gas was so voluminous it rose to comic levels. I’m talking 20 second farts, over and over and over, like dozens an hour.
Then over Memorial Day weekend we went camping and I forgot my PS. Three days with zero, and we ate paleo, grilling meat and having salads. All of a sudden, best shits ever. Since then, I have mixed it up big time, 1-4 T per day, some days with zero, with and without food and zero gas issues since.
Kinda miss the fun, though.
Moorerulz, all investigation so far by Tatertot and I seems to indicate the tapioca (cassava) starch works just as well – and my increased farting seems to support that. I’m taking about 2 tbsp/day of it. In Brazil cassava root is called Mandioca, or sometimes Aipim, and the raw starch is called “polvilho”. Question: why would anyone buy a marked up supplement when they can easily and cheaply buy the bulk powder by way of potato or cassava starch?
Oh, I’m also eating 2-3 slightly green bananas every day or two as well, so that may be having an additional effect.
Those are some pretty exciting results, Richard. Looks like resistant starch and beans such as lentils could help a lot of people with blood sugar issues.
Also, have you had your mom look into iron levels? There’s a lot of observational evidence that high iron could be one of the causes of diabetes and insulin resistance. More importantly, the randomized clinical trials that implemented iron reduction via phlebotomy have shown improved glucose tolerance and restored insulin sensitivity. Chris Kresser talked about this in his AHS presentation, starting at the 9:30 mark- http://chriskresser.com/iron-behaving-badly-the-role-of-iron-overload-in-metabolic-disease
Here’s a direct link to one of the studies here- http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/10/54
Might be worth having an iron panel done to test ferritin and transferrin saturation.
re: Cassava/Tapioca starch;
It seems to be almost exactly the same RS content as potato starch, the studies I’ve seen put it between a low of 44% and a high of 80%; potatoes range from 66-79% in the studies. I would say it is just as good or better than potato starch.
Funny enough, I just bought some today at local health food store, haven’t tried it yet but it looks exactly like the potato starch.
Just a short comment about mandioca starch, there are two types of it, at least here in Brazil: one obtained by heating up the mandioca, thus transforming all RS into regular one, and the other RS rich one where no heat is used is called Polvilho Doce (sweet starch), even though it is not sweet and it tastes just like potato starch.
So, make sure you buy the right polvilho (sweet) and not the Azedo one (sour) since they look and taste the same.
In case any of you want to start a business importing polvilho, which is really cheap, make sure to test it for gluten for some brands here contain some of it.
re: Farts
I, too, have been amazed and amused at often times hyper-flatulent conditions. Days on end with none and then the 20 second variety for a day or two, or even just a couple hours.
Here’s a good article on gas: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gas/
It says 13-21 per day is normal. Even on my worst days, I probably am pretty close to that range. The real problem may be not enough farting on lower carb paleo due to restriction in carbs/fiber.
Another thing, I know it sounds cliche, but my farts don’t stink. Used to be on the SAD, I could clear a room. I know they say a skunk can’t smell it’s own spray, but I knew when I was being malodorous.
I think these things show your farts are normal:
– 15-30/day
– Not excessively smelly
– No painful bloating
– No excess burping
to Richard and tatertot: any idea for the best time to down the potato starch and water? Twice a day before or after a meal? Once a day? Last thing at night? Before breakfast? 30 minutes before each meal? The studies you’ve linked to don’t appear to show how it is consumed, and all I can see on that score is anecdotal. I imagine there are ways to optimize the beneficial effects. Thanks!
These things, and prob more, are reported to be good at reducing gas. It would be interesting to know results if anyone tries adding any of these to your diet while taking raw starch to see if farts are reduced…
ginger
fennel
cardamom,
caraway,
coriander
marjoram
anise
garlic
dandelion
parsley
probiotics (eg. Kefir)
@Brad, I have been doing this for 2 months. Potato starch without kefir – MAJOR gas. Potato starch WITH Kefir, no (or very very minor) gas.
Just my two cents…
What in the beans other than RS makes “the combination” so great? Can you achieve the same by just eating a little more potato starch?
Hey Tater, given you’ve been looking into beans more lately, have you read anything from this Ray Peat guy? He’s got some interesting stuff. I took Corey’s advise and read some of this writings – though my head was already outside of my ass. This quote struck me..
“Special preparation is needed to reduce the toxicity of seeds, and in the case of beans, these methods are never very satisfactory.”
Just one man’s opinion?
EF, I don’t know the exact answer but just apply a little logic. The amount and variety of critters living in your gut is huge. It’s logical that since there is more than one variety that they may thrive on different types of material which reaches their location – digestible starch, soluble fiber, resistant starch, lipids, etc.
EF – Like Brad said, beans seem to be a perfect blend of all the fibers. They contain soluble, insoluble, rapidly digestible, slowly digestible, fermentable, non-fermentable, and resistant starch types 1,2,and 3.
I was reading a study http://fusion.infiniteplane.com/lactic-acid-bean-fermentation.pdf where they checked all the fiber fractions in fresh vs fermented beans. What they found was that fermenting them caused huge changes in the structure of the fiber (and everything, really). Look at tables 2 and 3, the far right column shows the change of each component. Pretty wild!
I have to wonder what populations eat lots of beans and are they fermenting them? Canned beans are not fermented. The Mexican restaurants around here don’t ferment them, in fact, they use only canned beans (I asked). I’m not saying that non-fermented beans are worthless, in fact they may be better in some instances, but the real magic in the beans seems to come out with a simple overnight soak. Two days even better.
Most vegans make beans the base of their food pyramid because of the protein content. I have always said that I thought the perfect diet would end up being a blend of hard core vegan and hard core paleo…maybe the commonality is the bean.
I actually made my own natto (successful) and so I am encouraged by this. I will look into fermenting other beans.
the way I prepare my beans are by soaking over night, rinsing very well, one more additional soak, more draining and rinsing. Then I pressure cook them (boil them in the winter), then I freeze them, because I make large quantities. They make delicious “ice cream” with stevia and flavoring (vanilla, or express powder, etc). Have not done this in a while since I went LC. But now I think I will add this to my diet, but just it Low Calorie.
Evey, how do you make natto? (not that I want to. I buy it.)
All this bean thing: Chinese baked goods have some stuff that’s got bean filling with a pastry crust. I really like this but didn’t realize it’s not such a bad thing to eat. Now I’ve got an excuse when I’m shopping and have the munchies. :)
about bean fermatation- I read that it decreases RS? fermentation “decreases α-galactooligosaccharides (raffinose, stachyose and verbascose) contents, soluble fibre and resistant starch, the main flatulence-producing factors in legumes.”
http://fusion.infiniteplane.com/lactic-acid-bean-fermentation.pdf
So is bean fermentation not the way to go if we are wanting to increase our intake of RS for healthy colon? Or is bean fermentation the way to go, because it introduces desired microbes? Anyone?
Evey – In that paper you linked, look at tables 2 and 4. You’ll see that fermenting the beans raises the RS by 13%, but then cooking these fermented beans decreases the RS by 97%. Since you can’t eat raw beans, you have no option but to cook them.
Cooling them will raise the RS by about 50-100%. in practical terms, most beans have about 10g RS per cooked cup, and 15-2og RS cooked and cooled, even reheated.
Also note fermenting lowers raffinose by 88% then another 37% of what’s left when cooked, that’s nearly all the raffinose. This is a good thing! Raffinose doesn’t seem to do any good for any gut bugs, like we aren’t meant to eat it. Fermenting takes care of it.
@Mart – I really don’t think timing is very important. If you are looking to reduce the glycemic impact of your meals, then take it with meals, or even a couple hours before, but I think for long-term health and ease, just take it with meals. Almost all of the studies had the people taking it with meals. I can’t recall any that involved people chugging straight potato starch–they always mixed it with ice cream, yogurt, or baked goods in the case of Hi-Maize. In the studies looking at second meal effect, they took the RS in the morning.
I made some dried plantain chips two weeks ago from 8 big plantains and have been snacking on these throughout the day and also have been lucky finding really green bananas. I haven’t had any potato starch at all for quite some time, but last night, I dug up some fresh potatoes and had them for dinner–I mixed 2TBS of potato starch in with the sour cream.
I think the ultimate goal should be to aim for about 20g of resistant starch per day, try to get it from real food, but when you can’t–use some potato starch.
A green banana for breakfast, a cold potato with lunch, and a big serving of fermented beans at dinner would be more RS than most anyone ever gets in a day.
I’m also in the mindset that a day (or even a couple weeks) with just low amounts of RS are probably fine, too. Just eating regularly, and including beans, rice, and potatoes, it’s really easy to get 5-10g/day. A few minor tweaks, such as fermenting the beans, not quite cooking the potatoes through, and eating potatoes/rice cold will easily get you in the 10g+ range.
Considering the SAD average is under 5g and the LC paleo is nearly zero, I think it’s a pretty good argument for beans, rice, and potatoes as a normal part of healthy eating.
If someone was really stuck on low carb, then straight potato/tapioca starch would be about the only option.
@Brad – I read lots and lots of Ray Peat and Danny Roddy a couple years ago. A lot of what I read sent up red flags. For instance, Peat says: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hypothyroidism.shtml
“Healthy and intelligent groups of people have been found to have an average resting pulse rate of 85/minute, while less healthy groups average close to 70/minute. ”
Ray Peat and Danny Roddy both recommend taking T3 or T4 meds for hypothyroidism, even if you are not hypothyroid, just to get the heart rate and temp up. Advice like that is just crazy. I think they both also like LSD, which explains a lot! http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/things-are-getting-trippy-serotonin-and-lsd
Just this one statement has so much wrong with it!
Anyway, Paul Jaminet took on Ray Peat a while back here: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/diets/ray-peat-diet/
Tater, green bananas, if very green taste absolutely awful. Some kinda coating on the outside (the part that contacts the peel) that is extremely dry, bitter, and gag making. One day later of self-ripening and it might taste fine. Hard to tell just looking at the ouside of the banana though. I’ve found slightly green bananas, as apposed to solid green, taste fairly good. How are you eating your GB’s? Mixing with yogurt/kefir or something else? Are they solid green in color?
Brad – I think they call that coating ‘latex’. I have been buying 4-5 solid green bananas. The first 2-3 days, they are so hard I have to peel them with a knife! I cut the whole thing into quarters and roll the meat out of the peel, rinse it well in cold water, and eat in small bites while drinking coffee. Yes, they are nasty, but it kind of grows on you, like eating baking chocolate or cocoa nibs.
By Day 4, they are soft enough to peel normally and taste better. I think you could blend the hard green ones in a smoothy and not know they were there.
Not sure what the exact RS content is, but I can imagine it dropping 10-20% per day until in is very soft.
My Indian friend tells me that in her ethnic community beans are traditionally cooked with turmeric to reduce wind issues
Richard,
This is totally off topic, please accept my apologies, but I’ve read and commented here for quite a few years along with doing the same on Arthur De Vany’s site. I think that you know Art and wonder if you know if anything is wrong with him – A few months ago his website changed such that members could no longer post messages and since then he himself has stopped posting – his last post was in May.
Cheers – Mark
Haven’t heard a thing, Mark. I did know he went back to the open blog, stopped in every now & then, but don’t have a lot of time to poke around unless someone points something out.
I suspect he just got tired of it. Have you googled for any info?
I always felt bad for Art. The paywall made a footnote out of him. Such a catastrophic decision.
It was like watching a favorite uncle liquidate his retirement fund to bet it all on Beanie Babies.
The real footnote is that he’s a professor of economics and though rather libertarian, not classical Austrian or even Chicago school, but basically mathematical modeling.
He does not understand people and economics is a social science.
Art is an academic. I personally think he struggled with real world variables when he left the coddled world of academia. The real thinkers in this world are the entrepreneurs – people who make other people’s lives (and their own too of course) better by implementing ideas rather than running thought experiments all day.
No offence to academics but you are correct. Trying ten dozen approaches to a problem will ALWAYS net a better solution than imagining why one and only one is the answer due to its elegance or apparent reliance on truims you believe in. Those Truths may be true – but just as likely there will be 50 variables you don’t account for in your head.
An interesting interchange re fermenting beans
http://www.permies.com/t/18250/fermentation/Fermenting-Refried-Beans
Art De Vany has gotten flak from all sides since his book was published and just in this thread he has been slurred as a “footnote” and an “academic” …. I don’t get it. Do you know many 75 year old men with his level of health and fitness?
Kayumochi
I’ll bet you most people even, even those with detracting comments wish Art really well.
I’m also one of those who thinks that his decision to go behind a paywall was catastrophic.
As we’ve all seen, comments and blog posts are shared and a conversation is carried around various topics
when you hear from lots of people. This builds community and also lots of disparate viewpoints are shared. This is how intellectual exploration has happened (really well) in the ancestral nutrition community. Art decided to shut himself off from all this rather than engage, because he figured he could drown out the trolls and bad advice and just have a cocooned conversation with his favorite people.
This is the first time I have seen criticism regarding the paywall. The criticism I have seen previously has ranged from how he promoted his book to the way he lifts weights to his stance on diet. Art’s response is, “Come back and see me when you are 70.”
Kayumoch, you and Art should go and see Clarence Bass right now. I doubt either of you are fitter than he is – even if you’re not 70.
I have been experiencing some joint pain in my knees especially the right one, since starting potato starch and eating more potatoes. I hate this as I was really liking the potato starch in a plain glass of water. I am intrigued by the bean idea by would like to know more about which beans are less toxic or better for the resistant starch than others. I really love potatoes though and thought I had found nirvana. I also didn’t think that peeled potatoes and/or cooled ones had the “nightshade” effect.
Cathy – thanks for sharing this. I have heard similar stories, but I just find it very hard to believe that what you are experiencing is from the potato starch–although I don’t doubt it’s possible. The biggest reason I say this is because the nightshade intolerance seems to be linked to the proteins in the nightshades, not the starches.
When people talk of nightshade intolerance, the symptoms are usually allergic reactions, not joint pain. As described at Livestrong:
” Your body mistakes the proteins from the nightshade vegetables as a harmful substance and attempts to fight them off. Within minutes of consuming a nightshade vegetable, your body begins to create specific antibodies that are engineered to destroy the nightshade vegetable proteins, according to MayoClinic.com. The introduction of the IgE antibodies into the blood causes the production of histamine in soft tissue throughout the body, mainly affecting the lungs, skin and nasal passages.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/320713-allergies-to-nightshade-vegetables/#ixzz2bn0ZMMiE”
You might want to try supplementing with tapioca starch, which seems to have almost the same percentage of RS as potato starch, but comes from a completely different plant (cassava) that’s not a nightshade. Bob’s Red Mill sells tapioca starch, too. It’s also called tapioca flour.
I’d be curious to see if your symptoms go away supplementing gram for gram with tapioca starch.
I suspect Richard will be blogging a long time about beans, so hopefully we will learn lots about best ones, etc… but it seems just about any legumes you choose are fine. The RS is intensified by fermenting (soaking) the beans at least over night, 24-48hrs if possible and cooking (usually by gently simmering 2-4hrs). Make a big batch and freeze the leftovers–the RS is again increased by freezing.
Good luck!
I have developed severe joint pain (knees/hip) where as previously to Unmodified Potato Starch, I never encountered. I am giving it up as of today to see if I experience improvement. I am hoping this will reverse my condition. I am athletic and not walking for an hour leaves me in extreme pain. Going to stop PS now and see if it reverses.
Prior to RS, I was running for that amount of time. My eating is super clean besides this.
Evey, when my guts get upset, same thing happens. But not from the PS. I do a lot of stairs so I know. It takes a few days to get better.
Update, day 9 of PS free. No joint pain whatsoever. Am able to be active again, squatting to pull weeds, pain free. Biking, pain free.
I also lost 9 lbs with extremely clean eating and decreasing calories. Raw or steam LC vegetables, no fruit, no coffee. Just green tea, eggs in coconut oil, full homemade yogurt, “taco salads” with my own chili from scratch. Lots of green tea, ACV tea, lemon water. No snacking in between meals and doing intermitten fast for about sixteen hours.
I am seriously considering PS enema maybe. I don’t want to regain weight and I did initially on PS.
I miss RS. I loved the quality of my poop and my unstinky gas–and the idea of my gut bacteria being happy. I am not sure PS caused the sever joint pain. When I stopped RS, I also took activated charcoal on day one. Soaked in Epson salt and made my own MSM/Magnesium Sulfate lotion fro my knees. Maybe all of that helped me. Whatever it was, I feel so darn good now, I am so motivated to eat this clean and this low cal every day with not snacking…for ever. I am at 125 now and wanting to reach 110 to 114 lbs to keep minimizing impact on joints (took ahead to when I age and I never want to have achy joints ever).
“Taco salads from scratch…”
The spices used in mexican dishes are often very high in nightshades.
???
Tatertot. Reactions to nightshades aren’t due to ‘allergies’. Livestrong is VERY unreliable source when it comes to anything health related.
Nightshades cause problems because of the calitrol in them, which if one doesn’t get enough calcium in the diet, then calcium is pulled from the bones, causing joint problems.
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/nightshades
Rebecca, how do you explain the millions of Irish who lived almost exclusively on potatoes and experienced a population explosion (until the famine, of course)?
I think it was Duckie who excerpted from the writings of a British observer who commented that the Irish did not cook their potatoes right through (leave the stone inside), so the outer part was cooked but the inner part was still raw.
Cathy:
Couple of weeks ago I ended up virtually lame in my right foot. I ignored it. Went away.
have zero idea what caused it.
This is the 3rd summer I have watched mosquitoes feast on my legs getting fat with my blood and never once get a single red bump or experience any itching. I have zero idea what causes it.
Since being roughly Paleo, when I get a mosquito bite, if I even notice it and if it even itches, it’s gone in about 30 minutes.