Completely out of the blue, but if this is another common effect of resistant starch, well maybe give it a shot. Seriously, my jab at Matt Stone the other day was all in good fun. No ill will intended, delicious all the same.
OK, another rung in with their own results after reading the original.
2 weeks ago, I started 4 Tblsp potato starch per day. Within 5 days my temp started to climb daily. I took my temp this morning. It was 98.6.
Spanish Caravan // Sep 29, 2013 at 14:44
Hey, you know, I think I’m noticing the same thing. I’ve been only been doing it for 10 days. I just noticed that my body temp is higher, around 98.2, which is very high for me. I’m usually at 97.0. Wow.
Has anyone checked their thyroid hormone levels (like T3 or FT3) or their white blood cell counts? I’ve long suffered from low FT3 and WBC (due probably to my foolish VLC experiment that lasted more than a year, which kickstarted my hypothyroidism) and I’m wondering if it will go up the next time I test. Has anyone got themselves tested yet?
Spanish Caravan // Sep 29, 2013 at 17:40
Guys, wow, I’m feeling some heat in my body that I never felt before. It’s like something ignited in me. Also, I noticed I’m sweating more and the bottom of my feet is sweating again. They’re moist. I never felt my feet sweat in like 3 years. I’m only hoping that this lasts. It does sound too good to be true! Right now I’m only on 2 tbsps. of potato starch, morning and night. What on earth did you come up, Richard? This stuff is unreal! I mean, this solves what Selenium, Iodine and all other supplements that I’ve been taking couldn’t do. One downside though: ever since I stopped sweating, I would only takes a shower every other day. Now I can’t, it seems. So I had better lather up before going to work tomorrow.
~~~
So, anyone else want to begin testing at that level and let us know what you find. Could be nothing. Could be just weirdness. Or, could be something.
Ray 
John 
CDLXI 
Tatertot
In Matt’s defense Richard, he has helped many people get over the LC nonsense in the paleo world. While I dont think eating pizza is going to help me keep my abs and bring me to pristine health I do eat a boat load of fruit and carbs. Another argument for another day. I have always been Hypo based on body temp which was caused by my LC nonsense for years. Eating a bunch of carbs daily really hasnt done anything for my body temp. I will be starting the RS tonight and let you know how it goes. I would be interested if other people see results. Has anyone read into pulse rate as a good measure for thyroid? If pulse rate is 80’s or higher its usually a good sign of thyroid being healthy according to some.
It’s fair enough, Ray.
In my own deal, I’ve never been convinced that body temp is a big deal. 98.6? OK, does everyone have the same cholesterol numbers, same D status, and a million other measurements? Why does everyone’s BT need to be 98.6F?
Inquiring minds want to know. I get cold hands & feet in the winter months and the rest of the year, don’t even notice it and I’m mindful of the notion that burning twice as bright typically means half as long, so I’m really not sure what to make of any of it.
I think there’s something to it. I’ve been noticing similar things with respect to overall temperature and warming of both hands and feet. I’ve been playing around with some other things too, so I don’t know if it’s “just” the resistant starch, but I think it has an effect. Based on the idea that MCTs in Coconut oil can boost metabolism, it would make sense that Short Chain Fatty Acids from RS fermentation could have a similar effect. I’ve been using both this week, and they might be even more powerful together.
Good to see another with similar results. I am staying at 98.5 for the last 2 days . I will have blood work done mid to late Nov. and looking forward to it for once.
Why does everyone’s BT need to be 98.6F?
I may be shitfaced wrong about this but my understanding~ low body temp means slowed metabolism which means more calories stored as fat than person with normal metabolism.
Richard, I think your point about body temperature is a good one. At the same time, I’ve heard anecdotal reports of people with hypothyroidism experiencing lower overall body temperatures. And Broda Barnes used to use body temperature as a factor in diagnosis of hypothryoidism back in the day (although it should be noted that temp wasn’t his only criteria). I had been getting cold hands and feet, so I started to track temperature as well. After all, thermometers are cheap, and it’s easier than tracking blood glucose (no finger pricking, after all). I did notice lower temps with cold hands and feet, and temps above 98 when I didn’t get the cold extermities.
The name “Body Temperature Guru” has been cracking me up the past few days.
Ricahrd- I agree 100%. I have no idea if my health will improve if my temp goes up. I am never cold and am always sweating despite a lower body temp. But based on others people’s observations and findings it seems that the higher the temp the better people feel. So who knows. Kurt Harris used to talk about body temp on how it doesn’t make a difference but I would bet he might change his mind now. Love the posts on RS lately btw.
OK, time for me to chime in here–hope you all aren’t sick of me.
I’ve been a bit hypothyroid for a long time. I was on 150mcg Synthroid for about 5 years (2005-2009), then when I lost a bunch of weight on LC Paleo and fixed my BP, chol, and a few other things, I quit the Synthroid. TSH slowly climbed up to just out-of-range and stayed there (about 6.0). In 2011, I started checking my body temp and it was pretty consistently 96-97 range. I didn’t like that, so I made an appt with an Endo and we started out on a very small dose of Synthroid–50mcg, and I have been on that since mid-2011. Body temps stayed in the 96-97 range, so I just blew it off.
I checked my temp this weekend, and I am at 98.6. I can’t believe it either, but when I was getting low temps, I was LC, so can’t say either that it’s the RS, but back when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid and was full-blown metabolic syndrome poster child, my temp was low also, and I was eating like 500g of carbs a day–sugar, flour, etc…
I did some Google’ing, couldn’t find anything pertinent, but in this study: http://nih.gov/news/health/jun2012/nhgri-13.htm was this blurb:
“Researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis examined the nasal microbiome of children with unexplained fevers, a common problem in children under 3 years of age. Nasal samples from the feverish children contained up to five-fold more viral DNA than children without fever, and the viral DNA was from a wider range of species. Previous studies show that viruses have ideal temperature ranges in which to reproduce. Fevers are part of the body’s defense against pathogenic viruses, so rapid tests for viral load may help children avoid inappropriate treatment with antibiotics that do not kill the viruses but may harm the child’s healthy microbiome.”
I’ll let you all think about this for a bit….
That’s another awesome piece of info, tater. By the way, have you looked into the book “An Epidemic of Absense” by any chance? It’s all about the idea of how bacteria, viruses and parasites helped to shape us and our immune system, and how certain parasites that used to be universal and have disappeared may have lead to host of unexpected problems. Right in line with this resistant starch research, and a facinating read on it’s own.
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/august2011/08082011serotonin.htm
And possibly a serotonin effect? Could go hand-in-hand with the sleep observations…
In mice, but still…
“In another set of experiments, the researchers found that switching off the serotonin-producing neurons disrupted maintenance of a healthy body temperature. When the room temperature was set at 74 °F, normal mice could stabilize their body at the typical 98.6 °F. But the body temperatures of mice with the switched-off neurons quickly plunged to match the 74° room temperature.”
Never sick of you Tatertot and thank you for all the research you have done. I have noticed sleeping better for the last week or so.
I should have added in my above post that slow metabolism also has many other problems such as nutrient absorption, cell regeneration, slowed brain function, and many other problems. About the only thing good about a low metabolism is that I won’t starve to death as fast as some one with a normal metabolism.
Nothing to say about temperature, but I’d like to update my previous observation that RS didn’t seem to impact my FBG. It has now.
I do the half cup of beans (from dried) and a couple of starch blockers and/or 2-4 tbls of potato starch. More reliable on the beans than the potato starch by far. After three (??) weeks of doing this, my FBG is hovering right around 100. A few under, a few over.
Since I record all my food intake – it’s the only way I stay calorically honest – I was amazed to see that Bob’s potato starch lists the calories as fat! I figured that there was no way they would be allowed to do that. After all, starch is a carbohydrate, right? If there ever was proof that a calorie determined from a calorie bomb isn’t one in our gut, that’s it.
Compare to 135 in January, which allowed my doc to prescribe the glucometer and strips that I then got for free on my health plan.
So is potato flour same thing for this as potato starch? Everything i see in stores here is labeled as potato flour…
Ode
Asked and answered about hunerd times.
pzo, just thought I’d suggest that you may want to check that label again? For one tablespoon (12g) Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch nutrition label lists 0g fat and 10g carbohydrate.
If Raising My Body Temperature is Important to You . . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYxoAJ3Boyc
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNMcLHhS20
Hmm ?
Sláinte
If Raising My Body Temperature is Important to You…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYxoAJ3Boyc
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNMcLHhS20
Hmmm ?
Sláinte
LR
“or”
Ha, laf.
Yeah, right Rich – that’s the Exclusive rather than the Inclusive ” ” . . .
I’ve been on the RS train for about 6 months. I too am hypo. been that way since 1996. Took synthroid until about 2 years ago, still lots of symptoms. Started dosing myself with dessicated porcine thyroid at the rate of 6 tabs a day (60 mg). I used to be cold all the time, temps 97 range. temp improved with the dosage/med change and recently i’ve dropped to 5 tabs. been exceedingly hot lately after adding additional soaked beans to my diet. I just dropped my dosage to 4 tabs and will monitor symptoms. gotta tell you, felt like hot flashes but I’m not there yet, LOL. feel like this has made a real difference, might save some money on my heating bill this winter.
LR
Yea, I was like hohum for the first link total wowzers for the second.
I’m glad you go both ways. :)
LeonRover, quel dommage. Seems that one “contra” another may be a language form lost in time, as are seduction “or” vulgarity, art “or” banality, …teenage boy “or” real man. :D
“my jab at Matt Stone the other day was all in good fun. ” Mine wasn’t. His “refeeding/Eat for Heat/180” crap has caused a lot of people to gain unnecessary weight. In the end, he’s no different than the late-night infomercial guy holding a pill and saying “You can eat all the pancakes, pizza and muffins you desire…our little secret will keep you thin!”
Here’s a recent post from his forum:
“I’ve been eating the food, eating for heat, refeeding, whateveryawannacallit, for 3 1/2 months now. To give some perspective, I started at 5’3″, 122 lbs, and I’m now just over 140 lbs (2-3 clothing sizes larger). For the past month or so, my temps have stayed above 98, usually hovering right around 98.6. I’ve had plenty of other improvements, too, including having the energy to exercise again (the first 6 weeks I felt like a total sloth…no…energy…at…all).
I’m doing some yoga, weight lifting twice a week, some walking or cycling once or twice a week (my temps stay high with the amt of exercise I’m doing). But, my weight keeps creeping up. I thought it had stopped, but many of the larger clothes I purchased last month are already too tight. I am down to, literally, one pair of jeans, 2 pairs of shorts, and one pair of black capris that fit my ever-expanding butt and waist (and those have all been purchased recently). Even my workout clothes and underwear are too small and I’ve had to replace them.
I don’t have the money to keep buying clothes that I’m going to grow out of!! I’m mentally okay with my body right now, because I FEEL so much better and the eating freedom (not having to worry whether or not there will be anything I “can” eat outside of my home) makes it all worth it! I whole-heartedly believe I’m doing what is best for my body. I’m just wondering…at what point does the weight gain stop? If I’m going to keep gaining, there’s no need to go buy a bunch of clothes in my current size, ya know?? But, I have NO CHOICE except to buy some things soon, especially as the weather changes here in the southern US!”
Looks like y0u’ve done a full 180 degrees on Matt Stone Richard :~
Chére Sophiste,
When the Cat emerges On the Hot Tin Roof, IOR collapses to EOR – ” a consummation devoutly to be wished” and no doubt involving Papal lécher la … & lécher le …
Mind you, if I am in a Deutsch MultiVerse do I hear both Shakespeare & Hartnett butt be unaware of it ?
Con-undra.
Back to my Second Sleep, Mariner.
“O sleep, it is a gentle thing, beloved from pole to pole! To Mary Queen all praise be given, she hath sent the gentle sleep from Heaven that slid into my soul.”
Sláinte
JP, I’m obviously no Matt Stone supporter, but c’mon, that’s gotta be someone fooling around.
The wide-eyed “oh my gosh b’golly” is too overdone, capris bedamned. Otherwise, if she’s as incredibly stupid as she sounds, she wouldn’t be able to handle a keyboard to type that post :)
@Marie – Nope – his blogs are full of comments like that. I like the fact that people are escaping from the clutches of ‘dieting’, but then they just get really bad advice and never really learn to eat right. He has made a career out of helping people escape Paleo, but those are mainly the people who equate paleo with VLC, and then keep going lower and lower carb until they are thoroughly broke.
Actually there’s something even more significant, if you want me to get into it. I’m no bunny rabbit but for the last 3 years I’ve been expelling rabbit droppings as part of my bowel movement. This started with my low carb diet and didn’t go away when I switched to higher carb Paleo. I was usually Bristol Chart Type 1. Or when I ate lots of fiber, it would be all one piece but lumpy like in Type 2, where my stool would look like a glacier that had passed through the Great Rift Valley; you could literally see the imprint of my colon from the ridges on the surface of my stool.
Well, yesterday, my stool resembled Type 4, which is silky smooth and soft. I could hardly feel it coming out. It was not in one piece but in 3 large lumps, which is still okay for me. It literally glided out, as opposed to grinding out, as it usually does. Then I remembered. Wow, this was how it used to be! No strain at all because the surface of my stool is smooth, improving the motility of the bowel movement. Wow. Has anyone noticed this? I always suspected that I had dysbiosis or candida so I spent a lot of money on probiotics, digestive enzymes, biofilm breakers, made kombucha etc. all to no avail. Who would have thought that a highly-processed starch powder is a solution for my problems? This happened when I went up to 2 tbsp.
Richard, you’re not only upending low-carb but Paleo as well. You don’t argue with success! This is definitely seems to be doing something to my gut flora!
@Spanish Caravan – When we first started these RS experiments, the first thing everyone said was, ‘wow! my poop is so awesome now!’, now we just refer to it as ‘TMI’ (too much information), as in ‘my TMI has been fantastic’. I know I probably made several comments that grossed everybody out, but great poops after years of not-so-great are really something to celebrate.
You mention ‘highly-processed starch powder’, actually it’s not highly-processed at all, just extracted from potatoes. You can do it at home and get about 4TBS from a pound of potatoes. It’s just time-consuming. I don’t feel bad at all about using bagged potato starch.
PhiloSophos, mon chéri,
“back to my second sleep”
If this be the surreal result of rem wavefunctions’ brief collapse, Oh that I ride the waves of your dreams thereafter ! … butt you aware of it ;)
tatertot, really? I would never have thought. Oh well, there are more things in heaven and hell than are dreamed of… ;)
Well my TMI is that my gas is causing me pains. YEAH BABY!!!!!
WS,
“my gas is causing me pain”
Hmmm, not enough NO in yr life ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2439480/Nitric-oxide-beads-treat-erectile-dysfunction-better-Viagra.html
Ya gotta laff – but it’s not N2O (nitrous).
Sláinte
Marie, as Tatertot said, his blog posts and forums are full of posts like that. Notice how the lady seems to “feel” better, so she just keeps trying the 180 stuff. As for those feelings, I think it’s a combination of (a) getting away from extreme diets (VLC, raw vegan, whatever…Matt attracts the ultra yo-yo dieting crowd) (b) a placebo effect.
Also, as H.L. Mencken said many years ago, “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” Snake oil is still snake oil, regardless of its packaging. And some will always buy into it.
JP,
indeed, leading to “more things on heaven and earth than dreamed of in (our) philosophy”… :)
or
“there’s a sucker born every minute”
Hamlet and PTBarnum harmonize on this one :D
@Marie: re Bob’s PS labeling. Very interesting. My new bag shows all carb. The bag I threw out a week ago, can’t retrieve, had the calories as fat! I know I’m not making this up, I took the early info and made a custom food in my Diet Organizer program. Forty calories per TBL, all from fat, 4.4 grams.
I guess the Feds made them toe the labeling line. Or, their lawyers got nervous.
Richard,
Thanks for the info. I had posted a question on another thread. I had a moment of laziness over the weekend when I sent my original message and I assumed I had been entered into the forgotten realm of jackasses arrogant enough to ignore all the time you’ve put into your writing and ask a question answered previously. Sorry for that anyway.
I invested some time in your previous writeup about the RS stuff yesterday. Very interesting results in regards to body temps your readers are experiencing.
My son, before my coconut oil experiment was steady at around 97 degrees. A couple of weeks into our experiment he hit 98.7 for the first time. I was thrilled. He was sleeping too. Somewhere along the way I had found a Matt stone follower commentin about body temp and the addition of coconut oil and thought I had found my solution. It worked for a few
Weeks. Then he stopped sleeping as regularly. Currently we’re back to Benadryl and melatonin to get any sleep at night. I hate that for him.
I started myself on the experiment last night(in modified potatoe starch) and him this morning. He’s a kindergartner so I started him slow not wanting to leave him in a horrible situation at school. I’ll let y’all know how it goes. Thanks for having ideas though.
And answering assholes dumb questions!
Michael
Do lower temp resistant starches curb the “addiction” to carbohydrate? I like the Potato Starch experiment and may give it a try when I start to climb out of ketosis.
“Do lower temp resistant starches curb the “addiction” to carbohydrate?”
No idea. Probably an n=1 deal.
“I like the Potato Starch experiment and may give it a try when I start to climb out of ketosis.”
Why do you think you need to be out of ketosis? Part of the whole deal here is you can eat a bag of resistant starch in a day and remain in ketosis. Zero effect on BG.
This is the whole point. The LC and VLC gurus are being incomplete and dishonest with you.
@Tattertot, thank you, thank you, thank you. This morning I hit 98.6! I’ve been trying to get Armour but who needs it when Bob’s Red Mill can do the job? You seriously do not understand how my BM was a constant source of stress for me. Now you sit down, sit up, flush. Takes barely a minute. No strain at all. It seems like there is an extra layer of grease enveloping your stool, lubricating it for easy passage. When it comes out, you are surprised by the volume and how you felt nothing. I once even considered fecal transplantation as an option, until being grossed out by how invasively scatological the procedure really is. Well, RS should be the first thing on your DO list, not fecal transplantation.
Dietary dogmas have got to die! As Yogi Berra said, “Whatever works, works!” Richard and Tattertot, keep up the tremendous work and spread the gospel of resistant starch. Yes, you can make it from potatoes but I suspect some will consider it processed since it’s considered ground flour.
I notice also that Richard’s erstwhile consigliore, Dr. Michael Eades, has come out with a negative blog post on resistant starch. I suspect he’s jealous, boxed into a corner as he is by the dogma of low carbism. Someone mentioned HL Mencken here to illustrate the gullibility of the American populace. But everyone’s favorite misanthrope also said this about Puritanism, which applies equally to any kind of dogmatism, dietary or otherwise: “Dogmatism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” That phrase was coined for exactly a sourpuss like the Eades and other dogmatic low carbers of his ilk.
@Spanish Caravan – Glad it’s working! Spread the word.
Did you look at the comments to the Eades’ article you mentioned http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/gerdacid-reflux/gerd-treat-low-high-carb-diet/ ? A certain Richard Nikoley left a comment about RS and received this response:
“Also, I don’t know enough about resistant starch to make an intelligent comment. And I have no experience with it, personal or otherwise, in the sense your talking about. It seems that I may have written a post on resistant starch years ago, but I don’t believe I was thinking about it then in the way it’s thought of today.”
Eades is looking at RS in this blog in the context of something to avoid in the treatment of GERD.
Ok, Tattertot, so Eades did not say what I thought he said. But this is the same Eades who used to privately confide that he had to put his long-term, low-carbing patients on T3 medication. But when asked later about the hypothyroidism afflicting his patients, he would deny it. Jenny Ruhl writes about it here. And you know the whole metabolic advantage deal with Eades? Basically, Jenny Ruhl disproved the whole principle which the good doctor holds so dear.
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2011/10/normal-blood-sugars-in-pregnancy.html
I think there is a time and place for LC, VLC, keto diets. Guys like Eades are good for working out those details. But I think for the vast majority, those type diets are not needed. Good gut flora, on the other hand, is needed by everyone. Whether resistant starch is the be all-end all to gut flora is yet to be proven, but I think it’s a good start. LC diets are almost certainly not good for gut flora, that is something that hopefully Eades and his counterparts will one day see and correct.
Here is the Eades Post – please note that is a very long time ago; However, you will notice that the last couple of comments are very recent and reference this blog.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/resistant-starch/
jack, September 29, 2013 at 3:07 pm
FreeTheAnimal.com is doing some writing on this subject that appears to be of interest in lowcarb and paleo communities.
Tatertot,
You cooked rice and beans and then cooled for at least 24 hours then heated skillet to make stir fry with previously cooked rice and beans – did you then allow it to cool and eat it cold or did you eat it hot?
@Jim — I ate it hot. I’m working a night shift tonight and plan on repeating the experiment. I will be eating 1 pound of cooked, frozen, and stirfried Uncle Ben’s, 1/2 cup of cooked, frozen, and reheated red beans, and 1/2 pound of moose steak. FitDay shows this as 140g of carbs. I’ll put results here in about 6 hours.
jim,
I noticed your ketosis comment above and then the discussion with tatertot too, so I wanted to make a distinction : unrefined Potato Starch is nearly pure resistant starch. If you take it alone, you stay in ketosis, even deep ketosis, even if physiologically insulin resistant. There is no effect on blood glucose and the stix stay really purple continually (apparently I can’t repeat that enough, some people miss it and go off on tangents about ketostix indicators).
There is a recent older post on this blog with data and comments just on this.
This is because RS is not digested into glucose, it is fermented by the colon microbes, producing SCFA.
So it’s much like eating fat.
However, if you get your RS in whole foods, like properly prepared rice, beans etc, they also have regular, digestible carbs in them of course. While the RS in those foods will blunt the blood glucose response from those digestible carbs, it won’t eliminate it. It’s good for diabetics or anyone who doesn’t want spikes, but it’s unlikely to let you stay in ketosis continually. Depending on the amount of other carbs, it may let you get back-in ketosis quickly though, at least, that’s as far as I’ve got up to now :)
OK, just spent 3 hours pricking my finger after a delicious dinner of 1 pound fried rice, 1/2 cup of pinto beans, all cooked, frozen, then fried in hot coconut oil, and a bit of meat.
Starting BG – 91
1hr – 85
2hr – 129
3hr – 90
140g of carbs, probably 30g of RS. Very slow rise in glucose. I was very surprised at the one hour reading being so low and peaking at 2 hours. I guess that’s what they mean by ‘slow carbs’. This was the first time I’ve ever checked my BG after an evening meal. 6 hours prior, I ate a green banana, piece of cheese, and a can of oysters.
Tatertot, that’s about 140 g of carbs or 130 g of net carbs in your rice and beans. You’re saying that you were able to elicit the RS out of those foods by previously freezing them, then frying them? Your 1h BG of 85 makes sense, if the RS content in rice accounts for the majority of its 115g in net carbs. The beans (15g) will always have a dilatory effect on BG, RS or not. So you peaked somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. My guess is you may have still gone over 140, especially since the non-RS portion of rice is still high glycemic. That usually happens when I eat sweet potatoes, as well: the peak happens at the 90 minute mark.
But that is mind-blowing. That you could blunt rice’s glycemic effect by increasing the RS content thus. Now, what would have happened if you also had a tablespoon or two of Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch here (10g net carbs)? Is that like adding fiber to food, so nothing gained? Or would that lower the BG numbers still?
I think if I would have had 2TBS of potato starch the peak would have been even lower. The peak of 129 was the actual peak, I was checking at 15 minutes when I saw it start to go up.
Back in the day, that many carbs would have shot me over 200 easily. At this point, I don’t know what is the effect of supplemented RS, RS in foods, or just plain old good insulin sensitivity. I had my A1C checked a few months ago and it was 4.9, the normal reference range was 5.0 – 6.0, I believe.
I’m a pretty firm believer that people should try to limit BG spikes in a day. You spike glucose a bit after a good carby meal, then let it settle out. Keeping it elevated by constantly snacking on sugary foods keeps it unnaturally high and probably is the leading cause of insulin resistance.