Completely out of the blue, but if this is another common effect of resistant starch, well maybe give it a shot. Seriously, my jab at Matt Stone the other day was all in good fun. No ill will intended, delicious all the same.
OK, another rung in with their own results after reading the original.
2 weeks ago, I started 4 Tblsp potato starch per day. Within 5 days my temp started to climb daily. I took my temp this morning. It was 98.6.
Spanish Caravan // Sep 29, 2013 at 14:44
Hey, you know, I think I’m noticing the same thing. I’ve been only been doing it for 10 days. I just noticed that my body temp is higher, around 98.2, which is very high for me. I’m usually at 97.0. Wow.
Has anyone checked their thyroid hormone levels (like T3 or FT3) or their white blood cell counts? I’ve long suffered from low FT3 and WBC (due probably to my foolish VLC experiment that lasted more than a year, which kickstarted my hypothyroidism) and I’m wondering if it will go up the next time I test. Has anyone got themselves tested yet?
Spanish Caravan // Sep 29, 2013 at 17:40
Guys, wow, I’m feeling some heat in my body that I never felt before. It’s like something ignited in me. Also, I noticed I’m sweating more and the bottom of my feet is sweating again. They’re moist. I never felt my feet sweat in like 3 years. I’m only hoping that this lasts. It does sound too good to be true! Right now I’m only on 2 tbsps. of potato starch, morning and night. What on earth did you come up, Richard? This stuff is unreal! I mean, this solves what Selenium, Iodine and all other supplements that I’ve been taking couldn’t do. One downside though: ever since I stopped sweating, I would only takes a shower every other day. Now I can’t, it seems. So I had better lather up before going to work tomorrow.
~~~
So, anyone else want to begin testing at that level and let us know what you find. Could be nothing. Could be just weirdness. Or, could be something.
Ray 
John 
CDLXI 
Tatertot
In Matt’s defense Richard, he has helped many people get over the LC nonsense in the paleo world. While I dont think eating pizza is going to help me keep my abs and bring me to pristine health I do eat a boat load of fruit and carbs. Another argument for another day. I have always been Hypo based on body temp which was caused by my LC nonsense for years. Eating a bunch of carbs daily really hasnt done anything for my body temp. I will be starting the RS tonight and let you know how it goes. I would be interested if other people see results. Has anyone read into pulse rate as a good measure for thyroid? If pulse rate is 80’s or higher its usually a good sign of thyroid being healthy according to some.
It’s fair enough, Ray.
In my own deal, I’ve never been convinced that body temp is a big deal. 98.6? OK, does everyone have the same cholesterol numbers, same D status, and a million other measurements? Why does everyone’s BT need to be 98.6F?
Inquiring minds want to know. I get cold hands & feet in the winter months and the rest of the year, don’t even notice it and I’m mindful of the notion that burning twice as bright typically means half as long, so I’m really not sure what to make of any of it.
I think there’s something to it. I’ve been noticing similar things with respect to overall temperature and warming of both hands and feet. I’ve been playing around with some other things too, so I don’t know if it’s “just” the resistant starch, but I think it has an effect. Based on the idea that MCTs in Coconut oil can boost metabolism, it would make sense that Short Chain Fatty Acids from RS fermentation could have a similar effect. I’ve been using both this week, and they might be even more powerful together.
Good to see another with similar results. I am staying at 98.5 for the last 2 days . I will have blood work done mid to late Nov. and looking forward to it for once.
Why does everyone’s BT need to be 98.6F?
I may be shitfaced wrong about this but my understanding~ low body temp means slowed metabolism which means more calories stored as fat than person with normal metabolism.
Richard, I think your point about body temperature is a good one. At the same time, I’ve heard anecdotal reports of people with hypothyroidism experiencing lower overall body temperatures. And Broda Barnes used to use body temperature as a factor in diagnosis of hypothryoidism back in the day (although it should be noted that temp wasn’t his only criteria). I had been getting cold hands and feet, so I started to track temperature as well. After all, thermometers are cheap, and it’s easier than tracking blood glucose (no finger pricking, after all). I did notice lower temps with cold hands and feet, and temps above 98 when I didn’t get the cold extermities.
The name “Body Temperature Guru” has been cracking me up the past few days.
Ricahrd- I agree 100%. I have no idea if my health will improve if my temp goes up. I am never cold and am always sweating despite a lower body temp. But based on others people’s observations and findings it seems that the higher the temp the better people feel. So who knows. Kurt Harris used to talk about body temp on how it doesn’t make a difference but I would bet he might change his mind now. Love the posts on RS lately btw.
OK, time for me to chime in here–hope you all aren’t sick of me.
I’ve been a bit hypothyroid for a long time. I was on 150mcg Synthroid for about 5 years (2005-2009), then when I lost a bunch of weight on LC Paleo and fixed my BP, chol, and a few other things, I quit the Synthroid. TSH slowly climbed up to just out-of-range and stayed there (about 6.0). In 2011, I started checking my body temp and it was pretty consistently 96-97 range. I didn’t like that, so I made an appt with an Endo and we started out on a very small dose of Synthroid–50mcg, and I have been on that since mid-2011. Body temps stayed in the 96-97 range, so I just blew it off.
I checked my temp this weekend, and I am at 98.6. I can’t believe it either, but when I was getting low temps, I was LC, so can’t say either that it’s the RS, but back when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid and was full-blown metabolic syndrome poster child, my temp was low also, and I was eating like 500g of carbs a day–sugar, flour, etc…
I did some Google’ing, couldn’t find anything pertinent, but in this study: http://nih.gov/news/health/jun2012/nhgri-13.htm was this blurb:
“Researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis examined the nasal microbiome of children with unexplained fevers, a common problem in children under 3 years of age. Nasal samples from the feverish children contained up to five-fold more viral DNA than children without fever, and the viral DNA was from a wider range of species. Previous studies show that viruses have ideal temperature ranges in which to reproduce. Fevers are part of the body’s defense against pathogenic viruses, so rapid tests for viral load may help children avoid inappropriate treatment with antibiotics that do not kill the viruses but may harm the child’s healthy microbiome.”
I’ll let you all think about this for a bit….
That’s another awesome piece of info, tater. By the way, have you looked into the book “An Epidemic of Absense” by any chance? It’s all about the idea of how bacteria, viruses and parasites helped to shape us and our immune system, and how certain parasites that used to be universal and have disappeared may have lead to host of unexpected problems. Right in line with this resistant starch research, and a facinating read on it’s own.
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/august2011/08082011serotonin.htm
And possibly a serotonin effect? Could go hand-in-hand with the sleep observations…
In mice, but still…
“In another set of experiments, the researchers found that switching off the serotonin-producing neurons disrupted maintenance of a healthy body temperature. When the room temperature was set at 74 °F, normal mice could stabilize their body at the typical 98.6 °F. But the body temperatures of mice with the switched-off neurons quickly plunged to match the 74° room temperature.”
Never sick of you Tatertot and thank you for all the research you have done. I have noticed sleeping better for the last week or so.
I should have added in my above post that slow metabolism also has many other problems such as nutrient absorption, cell regeneration, slowed brain function, and many other problems. About the only thing good about a low metabolism is that I won’t starve to death as fast as some one with a normal metabolism.
Nothing to say about temperature, but I’d like to update my previous observation that RS didn’t seem to impact my FBG. It has now.
I do the half cup of beans (from dried) and a couple of starch blockers and/or 2-4 tbls of potato starch. More reliable on the beans than the potato starch by far. After three (??) weeks of doing this, my FBG is hovering right around 100. A few under, a few over.
Since I record all my food intake – it’s the only way I stay calorically honest – I was amazed to see that Bob’s potato starch lists the calories as fat! I figured that there was no way they would be allowed to do that. After all, starch is a carbohydrate, right? If there ever was proof that a calorie determined from a calorie bomb isn’t one in our gut, that’s it.
Compare to 135 in January, which allowed my doc to prescribe the glucometer and strips that I then got for free on my health plan.
So is potato flour same thing for this as potato starch? Everything i see in stores here is labeled as potato flour…
Ode
Asked and answered about hunerd times.
pzo, just thought I’d suggest that you may want to check that label again? For one tablespoon (12g) Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch nutrition label lists 0g fat and 10g carbohydrate.
If Raising My Body Temperature is Important to You . . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYxoAJ3Boyc
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNMcLHhS20
Hmm ?
Sláinte
If Raising My Body Temperature is Important to You…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYxoAJ3Boyc
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNMcLHhS20
Hmmm ?
Sláinte
LR
“or”
Ha, laf.
Yeah, right Rich – that’s the Exclusive rather than the Inclusive ” ” . . .
I’ve been on the RS train for about 6 months. I too am hypo. been that way since 1996. Took synthroid until about 2 years ago, still lots of symptoms. Started dosing myself with dessicated porcine thyroid at the rate of 6 tabs a day (60 mg). I used to be cold all the time, temps 97 range. temp improved with the dosage/med change and recently i’ve dropped to 5 tabs. been exceedingly hot lately after adding additional soaked beans to my diet. I just dropped my dosage to 4 tabs and will monitor symptoms. gotta tell you, felt like hot flashes but I’m not there yet, LOL. feel like this has made a real difference, might save some money on my heating bill this winter.
LR
Yea, I was like hohum for the first link total wowzers for the second.
I’m glad you go both ways. :)
LeonRover, quel dommage. Seems that one “contra” another may be a language form lost in time, as are seduction “or” vulgarity, art “or” banality, …teenage boy “or” real man. :D
“my jab at Matt Stone the other day was all in good fun. ” Mine wasn’t. His “refeeding/Eat for Heat/180” crap has caused a lot of people to gain unnecessary weight. In the end, he’s no different than the late-night infomercial guy holding a pill and saying “You can eat all the pancakes, pizza and muffins you desire…our little secret will keep you thin!”
Here’s a recent post from his forum:
“I’ve been eating the food, eating for heat, refeeding, whateveryawannacallit, for 3 1/2 months now. To give some perspective, I started at 5’3″, 122 lbs, and I’m now just over 140 lbs (2-3 clothing sizes larger). For the past month or so, my temps have stayed above 98, usually hovering right around 98.6. I’ve had plenty of other improvements, too, including having the energy to exercise again (the first 6 weeks I felt like a total sloth…no…energy…at…all).
I’m doing some yoga, weight lifting twice a week, some walking or cycling once or twice a week (my temps stay high with the amt of exercise I’m doing). But, my weight keeps creeping up. I thought it had stopped, but many of the larger clothes I purchased last month are already too tight. I am down to, literally, one pair of jeans, 2 pairs of shorts, and one pair of black capris that fit my ever-expanding butt and waist (and those have all been purchased recently). Even my workout clothes and underwear are too small and I’ve had to replace them.
I don’t have the money to keep buying clothes that I’m going to grow out of!! I’m mentally okay with my body right now, because I FEEL so much better and the eating freedom (not having to worry whether or not there will be anything I “can” eat outside of my home) makes it all worth it! I whole-heartedly believe I’m doing what is best for my body. I’m just wondering…at what point does the weight gain stop? If I’m going to keep gaining, there’s no need to go buy a bunch of clothes in my current size, ya know?? But, I have NO CHOICE except to buy some things soon, especially as the weather changes here in the southern US!”
Looks like y0u’ve done a full 180 degrees on Matt Stone Richard :~
Chére Sophiste,
When the Cat emerges On the Hot Tin Roof, IOR collapses to EOR – ” a consummation devoutly to be wished” and no doubt involving Papal lécher la … & lécher le …
Mind you, if I am in a Deutsch MultiVerse do I hear both Shakespeare & Hartnett butt be unaware of it ?
Con-undra.
Back to my Second Sleep, Mariner.
“O sleep, it is a gentle thing, beloved from pole to pole! To Mary Queen all praise be given, she hath sent the gentle sleep from Heaven that slid into my soul.”
Sláinte
JP, I’m obviously no Matt Stone supporter, but c’mon, that’s gotta be someone fooling around.
The wide-eyed “oh my gosh b’golly” is too overdone, capris bedamned. Otherwise, if she’s as incredibly stupid as she sounds, she wouldn’t be able to handle a keyboard to type that post :)
@Marie – Nope – his blogs are full of comments like that. I like the fact that people are escaping from the clutches of ‘dieting’, but then they just get really bad advice and never really learn to eat right. He has made a career out of helping people escape Paleo, but those are mainly the people who equate paleo with VLC, and then keep going lower and lower carb until they are thoroughly broke.
Actually there’s something even more significant, if you want me to get into it. I’m no bunny rabbit but for the last 3 years I’ve been expelling rabbit droppings as part of my bowel movement. This started with my low carb diet and didn’t go away when I switched to higher carb Paleo. I was usually Bristol Chart Type 1. Or when I ate lots of fiber, it would be all one piece but lumpy like in Type 2, where my stool would look like a glacier that had passed through the Great Rift Valley; you could literally see the imprint of my colon from the ridges on the surface of my stool.
Well, yesterday, my stool resembled Type 4, which is silky smooth and soft. I could hardly feel it coming out. It was not in one piece but in 3 large lumps, which is still okay for me. It literally glided out, as opposed to grinding out, as it usually does. Then I remembered. Wow, this was how it used to be! No strain at all because the surface of my stool is smooth, improving the motility of the bowel movement. Wow. Has anyone noticed this? I always suspected that I had dysbiosis or candida so I spent a lot of money on probiotics, digestive enzymes, biofilm breakers, made kombucha etc. all to no avail. Who would have thought that a highly-processed starch powder is a solution for my problems? This happened when I went up to 2 tbsp.
Richard, you’re not only upending low-carb but Paleo as well. You don’t argue with success! This is definitely seems to be doing something to my gut flora!
@Spanish Caravan – When we first started these RS experiments, the first thing everyone said was, ‘wow! my poop is so awesome now!’, now we just refer to it as ‘TMI’ (too much information), as in ‘my TMI has been fantastic’. I know I probably made several comments that grossed everybody out, but great poops after years of not-so-great are really something to celebrate.
You mention ‘highly-processed starch powder’, actually it’s not highly-processed at all, just extracted from potatoes. You can do it at home and get about 4TBS from a pound of potatoes. It’s just time-consuming. I don’t feel bad at all about using bagged potato starch.
PhiloSophos, mon chéri,
“back to my second sleep”
If this be the surreal result of rem wavefunctions’ brief collapse, Oh that I ride the waves of your dreams thereafter ! … butt you aware of it ;)
tatertot, really? I would never have thought. Oh well, there are more things in heaven and hell than are dreamed of… ;)
Well my TMI is that my gas is causing me pains. YEAH BABY!!!!!
WS,
“my gas is causing me pain”
Hmmm, not enough NO in yr life ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2439480/Nitric-oxide-beads-treat-erectile-dysfunction-better-Viagra.html
Ya gotta laff – but it’s not N2O (nitrous).
Sláinte
Marie, as Tatertot said, his blog posts and forums are full of posts like that. Notice how the lady seems to “feel” better, so she just keeps trying the 180 stuff. As for those feelings, I think it’s a combination of (a) getting away from extreme diets (VLC, raw vegan, whatever…Matt attracts the ultra yo-yo dieting crowd) (b) a placebo effect.
Also, as H.L. Mencken said many years ago, “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” Snake oil is still snake oil, regardless of its packaging. And some will always buy into it.
JP,
indeed, leading to “more things on heaven and earth than dreamed of in (our) philosophy”… :)
or
“there’s a sucker born every minute”
Hamlet and PTBarnum harmonize on this one :D
@Marie: re Bob’s PS labeling. Very interesting. My new bag shows all carb. The bag I threw out a week ago, can’t retrieve, had the calories as fat! I know I’m not making this up, I took the early info and made a custom food in my Diet Organizer program. Forty calories per TBL, all from fat, 4.4 grams.
I guess the Feds made them toe the labeling line. Or, their lawyers got nervous.
Richard,
Thanks for the info. I had posted a question on another thread. I had a moment of laziness over the weekend when I sent my original message and I assumed I had been entered into the forgotten realm of jackasses arrogant enough to ignore all the time you’ve put into your writing and ask a question answered previously. Sorry for that anyway.
I invested some time in your previous writeup about the RS stuff yesterday. Very interesting results in regards to body temps your readers are experiencing.
My son, before my coconut oil experiment was steady at around 97 degrees. A couple of weeks into our experiment he hit 98.7 for the first time. I was thrilled. He was sleeping too. Somewhere along the way I had found a Matt stone follower commentin about body temp and the addition of coconut oil and thought I had found my solution. It worked for a few
Weeks. Then he stopped sleeping as regularly. Currently we’re back to Benadryl and melatonin to get any sleep at night. I hate that for him.
I started myself on the experiment last night(in modified potatoe starch) and him this morning. He’s a kindergartner so I started him slow not wanting to leave him in a horrible situation at school. I’ll let y’all know how it goes. Thanks for having ideas though.
And answering assholes dumb questions!
Michael
Do lower temp resistant starches curb the “addiction” to carbohydrate? I like the Potato Starch experiment and may give it a try when I start to climb out of ketosis.
“Do lower temp resistant starches curb the “addiction” to carbohydrate?”
No idea. Probably an n=1 deal.
“I like the Potato Starch experiment and may give it a try when I start to climb out of ketosis.”
Why do you think you need to be out of ketosis? Part of the whole deal here is you can eat a bag of resistant starch in a day and remain in ketosis. Zero effect on BG.
This is the whole point. The LC and VLC gurus are being incomplete and dishonest with you.
@Tattertot, thank you, thank you, thank you. This morning I hit 98.6! I’ve been trying to get Armour but who needs it when Bob’s Red Mill can do the job? You seriously do not understand how my BM was a constant source of stress for me. Now you sit down, sit up, flush. Takes barely a minute. No strain at all. It seems like there is an extra layer of grease enveloping your stool, lubricating it for easy passage. When it comes out, you are surprised by the volume and how you felt nothing. I once even considered fecal transplantation as an option, until being grossed out by how invasively scatological the procedure really is. Well, RS should be the first thing on your DO list, not fecal transplantation.
Dietary dogmas have got to die! As Yogi Berra said, “Whatever works, works!” Richard and Tattertot, keep up the tremendous work and spread the gospel of resistant starch. Yes, you can make it from potatoes but I suspect some will consider it processed since it’s considered ground flour.
I notice also that Richard’s erstwhile consigliore, Dr. Michael Eades, has come out with a negative blog post on resistant starch. I suspect he’s jealous, boxed into a corner as he is by the dogma of low carbism. Someone mentioned HL Mencken here to illustrate the gullibility of the American populace. But everyone’s favorite misanthrope also said this about Puritanism, which applies equally to any kind of dogmatism, dietary or otherwise: “Dogmatism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” That phrase was coined for exactly a sourpuss like the Eades and other dogmatic low carbers of his ilk.
@Spanish Caravan – Glad it’s working! Spread the word.
Did you look at the comments to the Eades’ article you mentioned http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/gerdacid-reflux/gerd-treat-low-high-carb-diet/ ? A certain Richard Nikoley left a comment about RS and received this response:
“Also, I don’t know enough about resistant starch to make an intelligent comment. And I have no experience with it, personal or otherwise, in the sense your talking about. It seems that I may have written a post on resistant starch years ago, but I don’t believe I was thinking about it then in the way it’s thought of today.”
Eades is looking at RS in this blog in the context of something to avoid in the treatment of GERD.
Ok, Tattertot, so Eades did not say what I thought he said. But this is the same Eades who used to privately confide that he had to put his long-term, low-carbing patients on T3 medication. But when asked later about the hypothyroidism afflicting his patients, he would deny it. Jenny Ruhl writes about it here. And you know the whole metabolic advantage deal with Eades? Basically, Jenny Ruhl disproved the whole principle which the good doctor holds so dear.
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2011/10/normal-blood-sugars-in-pregnancy.html
I think there is a time and place for LC, VLC, keto diets. Guys like Eades are good for working out those details. But I think for the vast majority, those type diets are not needed. Good gut flora, on the other hand, is needed by everyone. Whether resistant starch is the be all-end all to gut flora is yet to be proven, but I think it’s a good start. LC diets are almost certainly not good for gut flora, that is something that hopefully Eades and his counterparts will one day see and correct.
Here is the Eades Post – please note that is a very long time ago; However, you will notice that the last couple of comments are very recent and reference this blog.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/resistant-starch/
jack, September 29, 2013 at 3:07 pm
FreeTheAnimal.com is doing some writing on this subject that appears to be of interest in lowcarb and paleo communities.
Tatertot,
You cooked rice and beans and then cooled for at least 24 hours then heated skillet to make stir fry with previously cooked rice and beans – did you then allow it to cool and eat it cold or did you eat it hot?
@Jim — I ate it hot. I’m working a night shift tonight and plan on repeating the experiment. I will be eating 1 pound of cooked, frozen, and stirfried Uncle Ben’s, 1/2 cup of cooked, frozen, and reheated red beans, and 1/2 pound of moose steak. FitDay shows this as 140g of carbs. I’ll put results here in about 6 hours.
jim,
I noticed your ketosis comment above and then the discussion with tatertot too, so I wanted to make a distinction : unrefined Potato Starch is nearly pure resistant starch. If you take it alone, you stay in ketosis, even deep ketosis, even if physiologically insulin resistant. There is no effect on blood glucose and the stix stay really purple continually (apparently I can’t repeat that enough, some people miss it and go off on tangents about ketostix indicators).
There is a recent older post on this blog with data and comments just on this.
This is because RS is not digested into glucose, it is fermented by the colon microbes, producing SCFA.
So it’s much like eating fat.
However, if you get your RS in whole foods, like properly prepared rice, beans etc, they also have regular, digestible carbs in them of course. While the RS in those foods will blunt the blood glucose response from those digestible carbs, it won’t eliminate it. It’s good for diabetics or anyone who doesn’t want spikes, but it’s unlikely to let you stay in ketosis continually. Depending on the amount of other carbs, it may let you get back-in ketosis quickly though, at least, that’s as far as I’ve got up to now :)
OK, just spent 3 hours pricking my finger after a delicious dinner of 1 pound fried rice, 1/2 cup of pinto beans, all cooked, frozen, then fried in hot coconut oil, and a bit of meat.
Starting BG – 91
1hr – 85
2hr – 129
3hr – 90
140g of carbs, probably 30g of RS. Very slow rise in glucose. I was very surprised at the one hour reading being so low and peaking at 2 hours. I guess that’s what they mean by ‘slow carbs’. This was the first time I’ve ever checked my BG after an evening meal. 6 hours prior, I ate a green banana, piece of cheese, and a can of oysters.
Tatertot, that’s about 140 g of carbs or 130 g of net carbs in your rice and beans. You’re saying that you were able to elicit the RS out of those foods by previously freezing them, then frying them? Your 1h BG of 85 makes sense, if the RS content in rice accounts for the majority of its 115g in net carbs. The beans (15g) will always have a dilatory effect on BG, RS or not. So you peaked somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. My guess is you may have still gone over 140, especially since the non-RS portion of rice is still high glycemic. That usually happens when I eat sweet potatoes, as well: the peak happens at the 90 minute mark.
But that is mind-blowing. That you could blunt rice’s glycemic effect by increasing the RS content thus. Now, what would have happened if you also had a tablespoon or two of Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch here (10g net carbs)? Is that like adding fiber to food, so nothing gained? Or would that lower the BG numbers still?
I think if I would have had 2TBS of potato starch the peak would have been even lower. The peak of 129 was the actual peak, I was checking at 15 minutes when I saw it start to go up.
Back in the day, that many carbs would have shot me over 200 easily. At this point, I don’t know what is the effect of supplemented RS, RS in foods, or just plain old good insulin sensitivity. I had my A1C checked a few months ago and it was 4.9, the normal reference range was 5.0 – 6.0, I believe.
I’m a pretty firm believer that people should try to limit BG spikes in a day. You spike glucose a bit after a good carby meal, then let it settle out. Keeping it elevated by constantly snacking on sugary foods keeps it unnaturally high and probably is the leading cause of insulin resistance.
Thanks Marie and Tater for clearing that up. I have been in deep ketosis for close to 4 weeks on 1200 calories which consist of 200 G of protein a day. I am wondering if adding 4 – 5 TBSP of RS in the form of Bob’s Red Mill will make fat loss more efficient.
Also – I am thinking of the potential for using the starch in making a gravy for my deer roasts this hunting season!
@Jim – You could lose more weight faster being in deep ketosis while eating nothing but potatoes and taking potato starch–seriously. And, you’ll get crazy insulin sensitivity while doing it. Keto diet is guaranteed to give you insulin resistance. Adult men who are overweight don’t need ketosis IMHO.
But, try the starch if you want. It won’t knock you out of ketosis and will tightened up any leaky gut you got.
Potato starch makes the BEST gravy! No RS in it, but who cares!
All of this is so interesting and insightful, I hope at some point, you will compile your notes and findings into an e-book or similar. I would gladly pay for a summary of all the data in one place for future reference….
My understanding as far as using the PS for reducing the overall glucose impact of a particular dish (such as cooked potatoes or rice pilaf or hot oatmeal) is that you either supplement separately or add to the food when it is is close to room temp or just above room temps (or less than 140F)?
TT – in your current regimen, do you eat legumes for their similar benefits?
Thanks
@MsMcG – You are correct on using PS to reduce glucose impact. I like to mix it with sour cream and put on a hot potato that has cooled a bit, or pile the sour cream/ps to the side and dip the potato in it. But you could just as easily down a couple spoonfuls however you like, even up to several hours before.
I eat all kinds of legumes now. Love them. Beans and rice together is awesome and a huge mix of fiber, RS, and starch. I can’t believe how many beans or rice you can eat and be under 150g of carbs. It’s hard to do in one sitting! I always soak them for 24-36 hours, rinse, then boil for 10-15 minutes and simmer until tender, maybe 2 hours or less. I make a huge batch and freeze the leftovers–same as I do rice now, too.
It’s been great to get some beans and rice into my diet w/o feeling guilty. They absolutely do add to satiety. When I tried a zero carb thing, all meat, a few years back, I never felt satiated…….and, I gained weight.
@tatertot, remember my early comments on starch blockers? Have you looked into this further? Recall, if 100% effective, they essentially turn any starch into resistant starch because of zero amylase production. And the research shows that a modest dose like 1000mg(two capsules) is about 90% effective.
Are you kidding me, Tattertot? You mean your BG rose continuously from 95 to 129 then down continuously to 90 on 130 grams of carbs? This from a diabetic who used to have BG over 200? Do you realize the magnitude of this discovery? Seriously, I thought the temperature-normalizing effect and Bristol Chart 4 BM were the benefits for those who previously developed gut dysbiosis.
Do you realize how many billions of people could be affected by this? We have nearly 4-5 billion people in China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Phillipines, East Asia, Mexico, South America, where rice is the staple starch. Nearly 50% of these populations are becoming either diabetic or prediabetic. Last time I was in China, I noticed that they do sell potato starch (or what looked like one). How is it possible that no one came up with this? These people can’t have enough white rice; they’ll indulge even when their BG is going over 300.
Seriously, if I were running a private equity firm, I would pile into this resistant starch and make you my Chief Scientist. You’re an honorable man, not a mercenary, Tattertot. But this stuff is gonna become big, whether we like it or not. This is gonna be like the California Gold Rush of the 1850s. Only that it will happen in rice-eating countries, which happen to be the majority of earth’s population. I can’t wait to check for myself these BG readings.
I am opposite in that I am back to LC and past two days the fat is just melting off at same calories.The reason is that my hypoglycemia went haywire a few days ago and I spent one day in NODZ hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was so bad and the next day I dove back to LC and instantly felt and looked better.But thats just me and I believe its due to my liver being damaged.If I get one single hypo reaction its like I cant touch carbs the rest of the day or suffer a very ill feeling.Slow shallow breathing and inability to keep eyes open is just terribad and when it just wont go away is truly living hell.:( That said I do not go to just meat as again my liver seems damaged and I get sever hypoglycemia again.So I carb cycle but in a LC way where I some days eat 15gms carbs and others up to 60gms.
But I am still a true believer in RS and still take 6tbsps per day.I do have a theory as to whats going on when people do the potato diet.Could RS be the reason why people are able to do the potato diet,eat low calorie and just drop weight at alarming rate?I say this because of the temp increase many are experiencing points to high thyroid.When you go low calorie though your metabolism tanks and weight loss slows to a crawl.Could the thyroid bumping effect of RS actually allow you to drop calories and still stay at high body temp?Can any of the people that have hit 98.6 from RS drop their calories to see what happens?
Back to LC.So if its the RS of the potato diet that is working magic by keeping the metabolism revved and we come to find that we can consume PS in keto with no change to ketosis…….then RS is a blessing for me as it will allow me to eat keto for blood sugar stability while very importantly dropping calories to melt away the fat.I will keep you posted in the coming days.
Spanish Caravan,I was thinking something similar today.Could RS or lessening in the diet be the reason for the obesity epidemic.IF you go more processed carb wise you lose resistant starch by large amounts……
Yes, Tatertot will become to resistant starch what Linus Pauling became to Vitamin C :)
I have a bag of my favorite dried black beans on hand. I love Cuban recipes.. I usually cook them in the slow cooker/crockpot, but perhaps I should adapt that method somewhat.
@tatertot,
regarding the proper way to cook beans and legumes, you said ” I always soak them for 24-36 hours, rinse, then boil for 10-15 minutes and simmer until tender, maybe 2 hours or less.”
What if I pressure cooked them after a 24 – 36 hour soak? Do you think it is more beneficial, less beneficial or same? I wonder because I always pressure cook them after a long soak and it is super quick to cook them this way but if it means that all RS benefits are nullified with this method, then I’d switch to your style of cooking.
I think everything we are seeing with BG, temp, and TMI are all related to improved gut flora…nothing else. I think potato starch could help lots of people, but it’s a hard sell. Too simple. Too cheap.
@MsMcG – I don’t want any notoriety, I would be tickled pink to see a bunch of people make billions off this idea.
@pzo – ref starch blockers, I still don’t know what to think. They don’t really turn all starch into resistant starch, but they do allow regular starch to get into the large intestine. I can’t find any info on this being good or bad. My ‘gut’ instinct tells me it’s not so good if overused. It’s pretty well established that RS is a good prebiotic, feeding almost exclusively, beneficial bacteria. Regular starch that is basically not absorbed may just feed everything–good and bad. The only reason I say this is because there is a condition known as ‘fructose malabsorption syndrome’ people with this pass fructose into the large intestine where it wreaks havoc with gas and bloating. You don’t seem to be having that problem with starch blockers, so maybe it doesn’t apply…it’s still on my radar, if I see anything that really stands out I’ll try to let you know–you do the same, please!
hi Tatertot, would you see any advantage/disadvantage with pressure cooking the beans/legumes after a 23-36 hour soak vs slow cooking on simmer?
Wolfstriked,
“and we come to find that we can consume PS in keto with no change to ketosis…….then RS is a blessing for me as it will allow me to eat keto for blood sugar stability while very importantly dropping calories to melt away the fat”
Done :)
You can consume PS in ketosis with no change in ketosis.
Just make sure it’s only unmodified potato starch so that what you are getting is almost entirely resistant starch.
This was the point of the verification tests that were shown here a couple of weeks ago : 4Tbsp of Bob’s Red Mill unmodified Potato Starch produce absolutely no change in BG and also no change in ketostix measured continually, so a double verification. I tried up to 6T btw with no change.
This little piece btw is predictable from the literature (some 30yrs worth of literature) which has shown that RS is converted to SCFA by the gut biome.
Since Bob’s PS is almost entirely composed of RS, this result was hoped for.
I tried it in deep ketosis in order to make sure someone who needs to stay in ketosis (for medical reasons. as it happens) can take this practical source of RS (Bob’s potato starch) and get gut and immunity benefits without losing the medical benefit of ketosis.
You can see the data/graphs here :
https://freetheanimal.com/2013/09/the-n2-tatertot-tim-and-commenter-marie-test-potato-starch-on-ketosis-part-1.html
Marie – How does unmodified Potato Starch play into calories? If one is in ketosis eating lower calories, then does the Potato starch count as calories? I am a bit confused as to how it would help one drop calories. Thanks. This post has had me researching a ton today!
@Jim – I think you could safely say the calories count at about 1/2 the published rate–but I wouldn’t count them at all. If you like reading, read this: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/3/578.abstract (Thanks, Lauren!)
OK, another BG experiment to report.
Working another night shift, so lots of time on my hands, lol.
Ate: 1 cup cooked, frozen, fried Uncle Ben’s rice (about 70g carbs, I think)
1 handful of steamed kale and green beans
2oz mozarella cheese
1 ring of fresh pineapple
1 pound of venison steak (OK, moose)
Had 4TBS of potato starch mixed in milk 2 hours prior to eating meal.
BG start 94
30 min – 104
60 min – 101
90 min – 99
120 min – 95
150 min – 96
3 hrs – 105
3.5 hrs – 100
Just wanted to see what was happening with a normal meal with a normal serving of rice. I’m pretty happy with these readings.
jim,
that’s actually a very interesting question. How many calories does that unmodified potato starch turn into?
(Aside: if you’re referring specifically to wolfstrikes’ comment about “dropping calories”, it’s the staying in ketosis in his case that helps drop calories, as it does for many people – at least that’s what I assume he meant from the context).
For unmodified potato starch itself, definitely the 10g of “carbs”/ Tbsp do not translate into calories the usual way, since we don’t digest them because they are mostly resistant starch. So you can say that it’s definitely Not 40Calories/Tbsp, but a lot less.
Why a lot less? Because to find what calories we do get from it, we’d need to know how efficiently anyone’s gut bugs are fermenting it into SCFA and how much they use themselves. The fermentation process of course has other products (eg.CO2), while the bugs themselves are extracting energy by doing this (that’s “why” they do, it’s how they ‘feed’ themselves:).
So the short answer is : no one knows exactly.
My very best guesstimate would be 1/4 of the potential calories, under conditions of perfect efficiency (it would be less for real bugs – and that doesn’t even take into account any losses in absorption by us, since we never do account for that because it’s indeterminable from one person to the next).
It’s just a guesstimate though, to show the direction in which this calculation trends.
In practical terms, you’re looking at very small amounts of calories, since 2-4Tbsp is the usual daily dose of PS. I wouldn’t account for that in even the strictest diet. I note that whatever few calories it does contribute are “ketosis-friendly” since they’re coming from fats at this point (SCFA), not carbs or proteins.
….and that’s the best I can come up with, I hope I didn’t put you to sleep! :)
tatertot,
“I’m pretty happy with these readings” – understatement of the year! Anyone would be ecstatic with them, especially if they’d ever suffered from metabolic syndrome in the past. That’s really great.
Tattertot, if it’s only 1 cup, then that’s about 40g of net carbs. So this one isn’t as impressive as the other one but it’s more revealing in a way that could shed light on how RS is affecting your BG. You see that little rise at the tail at the 3 hour mark? Do you normally see that when you measure BR or is this atypical? You always measure all the way out to the 3h mark?
I always see that in my BG curve and it’s due to something called biphasic insulin response. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s like a sine wave and the crest is usually lower than the prior crest but in your case it equaled it, suggesting that the first rise may have been blunted by your 4 tbsp of PS. I may be overanalyzing here but it’s interesting to see a familiar pattern. Most people think it’s a clean normal curve but for many it isn’t. There’s usually a rightward bias and a steep fall in BG if you don’t have the biphasic response.
@Span Car – I actually think I had two cups worth. After I cooked it, I put it in ziplock baggies in the freezer, I’m pretty sure there were 4 cups in each bag. Last night, I ate a whole bag, and it weighed exactly 1 pound. Tonight, I just used half a bag, so 1/2 pound, or 58g carbs according to FitDay. I just wanted to try a normal meal for once instead of a huge bolus of starch.
Yes, that little bump at the end is normal for me, sometimes I see several ‘waves’ over 4 hours. Tonight, after the 3.5 hiour reading, I ate a handful of cashews. 15 minutes later BG was 78. Then 30 minutes after that 110 or so.
Interesting, Tatertot, if it’s 8 oz, then, correct, it would be about 57g. But you ate nothing over that 3.5h span; the cashews were afterwards. If you hadn’t taken those 4 tbsps. of PS, then the crests would have been progressively lower, right, from your experience? In other words, it would be a decrescendo?
4 tbsps are a lot of PS and that’s all pulverized. So my guess is that as soon as that stuff hits your blood, it’s being absorbed almost as quickly as liquid. It’s all powder, so each particle, when you add them all up, would have infinite surface area, resulting in quick BG-blunting effect … as seen by your 30-minute crest, which would have been higher without the PS.
I don’t know if that’s the correct interpretation but the PS effect seems to be very quick. Btw, those who’re biphasic tend to be leaner are less likely to become diabetic than those who’re monophasic. But there always seem to be exceptions.
Right – nothing else over the 3.5 hr span. Cashews were at the 4 hour point.
Here’s the deal with potato starch–it isn’t absorbed at all in your bloodstream. It all goes straight to the large intestine where it is attacked by gut microbes. The beneficial strains, mainly bifido and lacto love it the most and usually beat everybody else to the frenzy. After they eat the granules, the ferment them into butyrate. Having a large intestine full of butyrate sets the stage for a healthy gut. Pathogenic bacteria don’t like the conditions set up by beneficial bacteria and are sent packing. That study I linked about 10 posts up explains it all beautifully.
Correct, it’s not absorbed at all; it gives rise to SCFA. Yeah, I keep thinking that it is. It bypasses the small intestine. Is the BG-blunting effect that quick, though, at the 30 minute mark? Or are you perhaps benefiting from months of PS supplementation and improved insulin sensitivity? I mean, if you took the OGTT now, would you be able to pass it due to improved insulin sensitivity?
Have a couple questions on this RS stuff.
First is what is the impact of microwaving? I know frying cooked and cooled rice seems to increase RS. I suspect if I microwaved rice or mashed potatoes it would be similar to cooking normally again (lower RS), but I don’t have a BGM to check. This is more a curiosity for the workplace where I don’t have access to a stovetop to fry my lunches back to warmth.
Second, should I be taking potato starch in my kefir? I ask because I get insane GI tract noises for hours after doing it this way. I suspect it’s fermenting the starch along the way when I do it like this. The benefits seem to be when the starch is fermented in the large intestine. Is this logic reasonable or are the bacteria not able to ferment in any significant quantity as they go through the small intestine?
@Paul, I don’t know about the MW (I suspect you nuke the RS) but I started to take PS in water only … I experience not fartage in this way. I do it one hour or so before bed-time, just in case …
@Paul – The microwave shouldn’t have much effect. Make some rice by conventional instructions, then freeze it in small batches. When you get ready to use the rice, thaw it out, fry in hot pan with a bit of oil. Prepare it however you like for your lunch and put in a microwaveable container and put back in the fridge. Warming this up in the microwave the next day will have no impact on the RS3 that has formed in the freezing and reheating steps. Similar for beans and potatoes. In some ways, it’s easier doing it this way, just requires some planning. Make great big batches of rice and beans and freeze–after that it’s simply pulling them out of the freezer. The longer they are frozen, the more RS they seem to produce, up to about 30 days.
RE: PS and kefir. I think a mixture of the two is the best, but if it’s causing you issues, separate is fine. If you regularly consume both, try a smaller amount of PS in the kefir. One thing that is happening is the kefir bacteria will attach itself to the RS granules and have a better chance of surviving. This is the first time I’ve heard anybody say they get crazy rumblings when doing it this way, so I guess your mileage may vary–there’s nothing written in stone here. Maybe it will go away after a period of getting used to it all, or maybe you have some small intestine overgrowth causing the rumblings.
Tatertot, thanks for the info on microwaving. I appreciate all your experiments with this. Good news for my lunches as I quite like vegetable fried rice.
As far as the rumblings, I am beginning to suspect SIBO. I had some kefir and PS last night, and skipped breakfast, but I was still burping all morning. Also consistently getting slight bloating whenever I eat. My diet prior to this paleo/PHD that I currently eat was pretty awful (mostly gluten and sugar). I’ve read some of the thread over on MDA and it seems like RS will ultimately help with SIBO if I am reading some of the studies correctly by creating an environment that is inhospitable to bad bacteria.
By the way, are you guys sure that Bo’s Red Mill Tapioca Flour is RS? When I mix in water, it seems to dissolve completely, no real residue. Also, my temp is a bit off this morning and I switched to tapioca flour from PS last night. Bob’s Red Mill says this about their tapioca flour:
The flour is made from the starch extracted from the South American cassava plant. When the roots have fully developed, they are harvested and processed to remove toxins. The starch is then extracted from the root by a repeated process of washing and pulping the mixture, then separating off the liquid.
Does this process retain enough RS?
Yes Marie,thanks to your experiment I can see RS is fine when LC’ing.What sucks is that I have to go LC in first place.I started out feeling excellen,eating foods like chicken and rice or gluten free pasta with meat sauce and mozzarella,but overtime I seem to get insulin resistant and then in one day it goes severe and I have to revert back to LC.LOL but then I start not feeling well in ketosis and I yoyo back and forth.When I go back to eating carbs I feel amazing like I do when I start back up with LC.Sorta maddening!!
One thing I thought of today though was maybe I could try TT’s recommendations to increase the RS and see how I feel.I guess when LC starts to rear its ugly head I will give it a try.
@Natural – Sorry I missed this comment. Glad you asked! I think that beans were put ‘off-limits’ in the Paleo Diet simply because they were scared of them. Everybody agrees there are toxins in raw/undercooked beans and nobody wanted to be bothered on how to prepare them, plus they make you fart–that can’t be good, right?
I spent a lot of time researching how to deal with beans. Here’s some things I learned. Beans come with a hefty coating of bacteria attached to them. It is present on nearly all beans commercially available. There are usually several strains of bacteria, but the nearly ever-present lactobacillus is the one we are after.
To maximize lactobacillus, the beans must be soaked. Total lactobaccillus growth is achieved with a 48 hour soak, but for our purposes, 24-36 is fine. I wouldn’t go less than 12. Lactobaccilus can grow in temps ranging from freezing to 122 deg F, so temperature isn’t super-important. Room temp is fine, but 118 deg F seems to be the ideal temp.
Once soaked, they are considered to be ‘fermented’. During the fermentation process, a whole host of things happened: dietary fiber was converted from insoluble to soluble, resistant starch was freed from it’s outer shell transforming it from RS1 (physically inaccessible) to RS2 (raw starch), and some compounds that make us fart, like raffinose, was degraded almost completely by the lactobaccilus.
There still may be some compounds that are less than desirable left behind–especially in kidney beans. To ensure all these are neutralized, the beans must be boiled for a period of 10 minutes.
Pressure cooking is fine, maybe even preferred. If one doesn’t have a pressure cooker, the beans can be brought to a rolling boil for 10 minutes, then turned down to a simmer for 1-2 hours until the beans are soft.
During the cooking process, more amazing transformations occur. Insoluble fiber increases by 97% and resistant starch decreases by 97%. The raffinose all but disappears, glucose and other sugars are converted to starches. The decrease in RS is OK–that’s what happens to RS when cooked.
If you eat these properly fermented and cooked beans while hot, they are delicious and nutritious. If you store them at 40 deg F or less for at least 24 hours, or better yet, freeze them for days or weeks, all that starch that you made will reform into resistant starch (RS3). What’s amazing about RS3 is that it will withstand being reheated, even gaining more RS3 when reheated.
Microwaving them is fine, adding them to chili or bean soup is great, making refried beans by mashing them up and heating in a pan is great, too. Eating the beans cold is perfectly fine, too.
I like to make a whole bag of beans at once and freeze the leftovers. It is super-simple and you end up with a lot of pre-cooked, RS rich beans for use later.
@Spanish – I am not 100% convinced about the RS content in tapioca starch. Studies place cassava starch (tapioca starch) at 44-80%. At the lower end, you’d need almost double the amount to equal potato starch. I don’t know if the processing methods destroy any of this or not. Maybe one day someone will definitively measure it, until then I will continue to use it, but sparingly. I like the thought of giving my guts more than one type of RS, but if it’s a poor source…I don’t know.
“butt you aware of it . . . ”
” . . . . Lucifera.” Luke 4:8
Sláinte
@tatertot,
thank you so much for the clear run down on the proper way to cook beans and why they need to be cooked in this fashion. Very much appreciated as it makes our life so much easier to batch cook and freeze them. No more carb guilt when eating beans and legumes anymore.
tatertot,
what happens if you leave it for 3 days ? i left lentils out for 3 days and it had a bad (different )smell. Did it get spoiled? maybe that was done with sprouted lentils that caused a problem .
Circling back to Stone for a moment, a few more non-success stories hit his forum. One guy went from 220 to 300, while another gained 50 pounds with no change in body temp.
My takeaway: if your current eating lifestyle (modified paleo or whatever) is working for you — except for body temp issues — just add Tatertot’s protocol. It won’t give you license to hit buffets and pizza-eating contests regularly, but may improve your health!
@tef – Certainly after a while two things should occur: sprouting or rotting. I don’t think that the best way to sprout beans is by completely submerging them in water, aren’t they normally wrapped in a paper towel or something? So they were probably starting to rot. I have never left any beans to soak more than 36 hours, and lentils are kind of small and not quite as sturdy as a big old pinto bean.
@JP – If you ever frequent the PHD blog, people there complain of gaining weight when adding safe starches, but then they learn to tweak amounts and macros a bit to where they are not gaining, and even losing again–all on a real food, paleo-esque platform. I’m probably more excited about the body temp thing that the other aspects of potato starch right now. I hope more people with low body temp try it out!
tef,
I strongly suggest that you rinse and change the water at least once, preferably twice a day when soaking beans or grains. I lost a lb. of navy beans last week because I forgot to rinse and change one night and you can definitely smell when they are off.
Tatertot,
I agree about the body temp thing. I have run the gauntlet on products that supposedly would “cure” or help. None worked. At all. I had no idea or expectations that potato starch would have any effect on body temp. Still running at about 98.5 daily. Great side effect!
@tatertot,
Here’s something new I just read about potatoes on Suppversity. Apparently, potatoes contain a decent amount of Colorgenic Acid (10-14mg/100g). Do you know anything about it?
This is the same ingredient in green coffee bean extract that is responsible for weight loss when combined with normal diet. CA has shown +5% in energy expenditure and +5% in fatty acid oxidation in NORMAL weight young people. As well, it has positive effect on insulin sensitivity. However, Colorgenic Acid can have adverse effect on weight when used with high fat diet.
Maybe, the combination of RS + CA is the reason for the Potato Hack producing such good weight loss results :-)
Read about it more here:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/10/cholorgenic-acid-fucoxanthin-and.html?showComment=1380887111526#c8407816415228504433
Maybe those 6 meals a day (high protein – potato and rice carb – medium fat) bodybuilders have been on to something for years?!!?!?!? Joking – sort of….
CDXLI,try lowering your calories and see if your temps stay up.I think that RS is the reason for the amazing unexplained fatloss of the potato diet.You eat low calorie yet your metabolism is booming and so a few pounds of fatloss per week.For me my metabolism tanks after what seems 2 days.I get suddenly bloated and freezing cold.One day I was in a restaurant and asked the waitress to turn the AC down and the whole place was like NO and that I should take some vitamins instead.LOL
But now with RS its totally different.Firstly I have no hunger and seem to be forcing myself to eat at this moment.Second is that I am hot all the time and finally I need to poop twice per day and they are urgent poops.I am LC right now and can tell you its magical for two days and then I get all the negatives and I dont poop for days……that is until I hit the weekend eat all I want and shit my brains out.Thats not healthy at all but RS is the shit!!! I really think that dwindling RS content in food is the cause of the obesity epidemic from what is happening to me right now.
A weird thing happened to me today. I had a waking(6am) temp of 97.2, which is great for me, drank some coffee with coconut oil in it and then had my first meal at 11:30 (leftover beef with rice) which I microwaved. Between 12-12:15, my temp dropped to 95.8. When I check my temp again at 1:30 it was back up to 97.1 and now(5:30) its at 97.7. Has this happened to anyone else and does anyone know why this would happen?
BTW, I had a tablespoon of PS when I woke up and another with my beef and rice.
wonder what adding Potato starch to a longer duration PSMF diet would do… Interesting to think about
“….Lucifera”_ hmmm, contemplating the nature of temptation now :)
Since there’s a feeling you get when you look to the west, your gift :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7FUo_XaJs4
(η δοξασμένη)
Exactly Jimbo!!;) Does RS keep the body temp up with low calories is a hugely important question to which the people on this forum seem to be avoiding.Its so huge as it will change dieting forever……..where you can cut calories and you lose weight as the calories in calories out dictates.
@E – I’ve been checking my temps for years, I’ve never seen that! What type thermometer are you using? I have a digital one that you stick in your ear, if the probe tip is cold you’ll get a really low reading.
@Jim and Wolfstriked – I’m going to try to find out! Summer bulk-up over, Winter slim-down in progress. Hope to see temp stay high. Other than N=1’s we’re on our own here.
Add 1 degree to an ear thermometer and subtract 1 degree if you use a rectal thermometer (straight face:-)
Maybe it’s working too well and I have to cut back! Yesterday, after starting Bob’s RM Tapioca Flour (tapioca starch), it didn’t seem to be having the same effect as Bob’s RM PS. I have some rheumatoid arthritis symptoms and felt my eyes dry out after my 12th day on PS. So yesterday, I took 5 tbsp. of TF and hit 97.6-97.8 rather than the 98.2-98.6 I’ve been seeing with PS. Not bad but the strength didn’t seem to be the same.
Last night, I went to a large Oriental grocery chain and bought what’s labeled “mungbean starch,” which Tatertot lists as having 50.3g Min RS per 100g. It’s completely white and you can’t tell from PS or TF. Didn’t seem to fully dissolve when mixed.
http://www.masalaminds.com/content/mung-bean-starch?region=127
This morning I was 97.5. Had 1 tbsp. of MS with Almond Milk. About an hour later, I felt it getting real hot. I mean, really hot. 99.4! Then 99.3, 99.1, 98.8. This stuff seem to be even stronger than PS? But is it good to go over 99? I’m at 98.8 now so I’ve stabilized. But what do you make of a temperature spike like this? Something I never saw with PS.
I checked out Tatertot’s footnote regarding MS, where it’s noted that MS has the highest Amylose content, i.e., the lowest rate of starch digestibility during 30 to 180 mins compared to the other starchy food samples. “The high amylose content in the bean starches and the composition of the RS-I and RS-II resulted in a very low rate of starch digestibility in the observed samples (Osorio-Diaz et al., 2002), whereas commercial cassava starch exhibited greater starch digestibility than the other samples, as it
contained a very pure starch with low fat and protein content.”
In other words tapioca starch (cassava starch) had the highest digestibility due to amylose but MS had the lowest. PS had was in the middle. Perhaps it’s the RS AND digestibility that determines effectiveness and shows up as higher temperature? That would explain why TF was somewhat ineffective, PS is effective but MS is pushing me into hyperthermia!
@Spanish Caravan – That is wild! I’ll have to see if I can find mung bean starch and give it a go.
On Tapioca Flour/starch – About 3-4 weeks ago, I dumped a bag of it in my starch jar on top of some potato starch and didn’t mix it. A couple days ago, I must have gotten down to the potato starch because all of a sudden I’m getting those long, comical toots again.
Where did you find mung bean starch? Was it expensive? Good job on clicking the reference in RS pdf–glad someone found it useful!
Tatertot, I bought it at a large Oriental market here in New York called H-Mart. They’re mainly on the East Coast, I think. And it’s some generic brand that cost me $3.99 for 16 oz.
http://www.hmart.com/shopnow/shopnow_newsub.asp?p=804620031402
But if you search for mungbean starh at Google Shopping or Amazon, you’ll see some places that sell and ship. The only reason I looked was TF didn’t seem as strong as PS and I may react to nightshades: no symptoms until like my 12th day on PS. If PS is made without skinning, it’s understandable.
With this MS stuff, maybe I should do a teaspoon at a time. It seems just too strong. I mean, I’m getting a little too hot for comfort here!
Spanish Caravan – Keep playing with it! Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We’re still learning.
Tatertot, another reason to thank you. TMI, but this morning, my BM is finally Bristol Chart Type 4. Not broken lumps but all in one piece, single, unqualified and intact. It’s a thing of beauty. This is the first time since Fall 2009, when I started my ill-fated low-carbing; my gut flora seem to have been eviscerated by carb restriction. After being a bunny rabbit for the last 4 years, my BM is finally back to normal! For me, higher body temperature and BG control are just a bonus. This was the real issue I had! Thank you!
The Calorie Restriction people talk about reducing body temperature as a good thing. As someone said here in these notes, the slower the burn – the longer the life. Again, I don’t know all the mechanisms but I suspect a search on ‘Calorie Restriction’ and body temperature would garner quite a bit of results. They’re usually reputable and science-minded people, even if their goal of extending life by reducing calories is a little too draconian.
I don’t think anyone else threw this idea out yet: is it possible that the increase in body temps is due to the fact that a byproduct of increased LI fermentation is heat?
It would be good to know, Kirsten. Since I started taking potato starch daily I have definitely noticed a warm and toasty feeling washing over me and temperature readings have been 98 F and above whereas before they were always in the high 96 – mid-97 F range.