styled Paleo (Paleo + starch as white rice)—is basically just a means of providing carbohydrate but not really much of anything else. Though it’s fine to get a reasonable amount of starch carbage (30% of kcal daily is a good mark) via something that’s actually food-like, I think it’s not quite accurate to dismiss potential real health benefits to rice: parboiled rice. Here’s from the Wikipedia article:Parboiled rice (also called converted rice) is rice that has been partially boiled in the husk. The three basic steps of parboiling are soaking, steaming and drying.[1] These steps also make rice easier to process by hand, boost its nutritional profile (other than its vitamin-B content, which is denatured) and change its texture. About 50% of the world’s paddy production is parboiled. The treatment is practiced in many parts of the world such as India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar, Malaysia, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Guinea, South Africa, Italy, Spain, Nigeria, Thailand, Switzerland, USA and France.[2] […] Parboiling drives nutrients, especially thiamine, from the bran to endosperm,[3] hence parboiled white rice is 80% nutritionally similar to brown rice. Because of this parboiling was adopted by North American rice growers in the early 20th century. The starches in parboiled rice become gelatinized, then retrograded after cooling. Through gelatinization, alpha-amylose molecules leach out of the starch granule network and diffuse into the surrounding aqueous medium outside the granules[4] which, when fully hydrated are at maximum viscosity.[5] The parboiled rice kernels should be translucent when wholly gelatinized. Cooling brings retrogradation whereby amylase molecules re-associate with each other and form a tightly packed structure. This increases the formation of type 3-resistant starch which can act as a prebiotic and benefit gut health in humans.[6] [emphasis added]OK, that takes care of a couple of the items, higher nutrition and more resistant starch. But how about glycemic index? Here’s a source, but there are many.
Parboiled rice has double the fiber than you’d get from cooked white rice. It has a low glycemic score of 38, compared with a high 89 for white rice, notes Harvard Health Publications. A low glycemic score indicates that the carbohydrates in parboiled rice do not cause a large spike in blood sugar. [emphasis added]That right there is good evidence that the resistant starch levels are higher, since we have so manny anecdotes of blood glucose blunting by taking potato starch sometime before or with a meal. RS slows digestion, so you’re getting about the same amount of carbs, just over a longer period of time. Mark Sisson even highlighted the interesting aspects of parboiled rice as compared to brown and white back in this 2010 post: How Bad is Rice, Really? Of parboiled rice, he writes:
Parboiled rice is interesting. Parboiling involves partially boiling the intact rice seed – husk, bran, and all. This, in theory, is supposed to incorporate some of the bran’s nutrients into the interior. The parboiled rice is then dried and milled, producing a white rice with greater nutrient content than regular white rice. How does it pan out? A 100g raw dose contains:Yep Mark, indeed it is. One thing I was not able to find was a source for phytic acid levels in parboiled rice, compared to brown rice or plain polished white rice. Perhaps someone can dig that up if available and drop it in comments. Update: I should mention that I also typically increase the nutrition even further by cooking it in the rice cooker with Kitchen Basics chicken stock. Two cups of Uncle Ben’s Original Parboiled rice to a 1-quart container of the stock. Leftover rice goes immediately into the fridge for cooling and to later make my now favorite fried rice dish: Chicken Fried Rice, Filipino Sinangag (Garlic Fried Rice) Inspired.It kinda works. There’s very little mineral change from white rice (perhaps even a reduction), but some of the vitamins seem to increase by parboiling. Interesting.
- 81 g carb
- 2 g fiber
- 1 g fat
- 7.5 g protein
- 0.224 mg thiamin
- 5 mg niacin
- 0.74 mg iron
- 27 mg magnesium
on a very limited budget here. I can’t afford the parboiled stuff, but I do buy the 5 pound bags of long grain white rice. How do I maximize the RS content? Is it best to NOT soak and rinse the rice before cooking until the water runs clear (as I would have done in the past.)
Here’s how I prepare my rice: After cooking in the rice cooker I let that rice cool, then put it in the fridge for a few hours. Then I’d fry it up (and maybe add some flavor to it like hot sauce, other spices.) Then I’d put that in the fridge and I’ll eat it cold later. Does this work for at least a little RS? thanks
not sure where you are located BUT I’m @ Sacramento, CA
I found in WinCo converted rice also known as parboiled rice @ $0.40 per pound.
Yep Mart, but try to find parboiled or converted rice in your budget. Or, less rice, more beans and taters but make the rice parboiled. Also, check out my fried rice recipe in the update to the post. That was breakfast, this morning. I took 2 T of PS beforehand and BG maxed at 125 eating about 2 cups worth of that fried rice.
Mart, I just bought 20 lbs. of parboiled rice at a local Indian market, at $.80 per lb. It says grown in the US, but marketed to Indians, “Raja Foods”. I don’t know what regular Uncle Ben rice is in the grocery store, but on Amazon, one type of Uncle Ben’s was around $1.30 per lb. before shipping and tax. Also we got some big plantains there at $.99 per lb. I’m going to make dried plantain chips for the New Years party.
Our save a lot sells parboiled rice a 20 pound bag for just under $10 that’s pretty much .50cent a pound was the same price as the white rice. We just picked up a big bag plus 2 pine apples 9 pound of bananas and 6 pounds of sweet potatoes we paid $18.99 for all of that.
Sams’ s Club…25 lbs. Converted rice for $11.00
Richard,
The “subscribe without commenting” link does not work for me
Ellen, yes, I am aware. I got that fixed, but moved the site to a new host on Friday. Now it’s broken again. I’ll get on it this week.
I have been using the Uncle Ben’s stuff since this whole RS thing started here. It has a different taste than normal white rice, which I had switched to from brown rice. I like the taste of it immensely. I will try the fried rice thing. My daughter in law’s mom is Filipina so I have had the wonderful lumpia as well.
@Cathy
want more RS in your Asian dish. then eat more Pancit made with rice vermicelli or mung bean starch. looks like a clear transparent noodle. or Fresh lumpia made of thin egg wrapper then dip in garlic sauce. maybe even add some potato starch to the garlic sauce AFTER the sauce has been cooked and cooled.
now I’m finally hungry. stopping by the Asian Market in an hour.
I am absolutely doing pancit next week. Back in 83/4 in college, a girlfriend had a live in philipina aunt (Lola) who once showed me how she make her pancit (and lumpia, and chicken adobo, etc). Wish I could remember. But I’m sure I’ll get along. :)
yeah there are a lot of recipes available in the net BUT none can come close to the way my lola does it, “old world” style and with lots of love :) I’ll finish a whole platter.
OMG…LUMPIA!!
Are rice noodles also a source of resistant starch?
Here’s the whole list of what has resistant starch. Yes, rice noodles are a decent source.
https://freetheanimal.com/2013/08/resistant-starch-content-of-foods-other-anecdote-and-miscellania.html
yeah. Vietnamese Noodles soup with tendons. FTW !
I’ve tried finding this stuff in the Netherlands, but I have no idea of what it’s called.
Also on the phytic acid, white rice has very little phytic acid to begin with. I don’t think parboiling would reduce it’s contents significantly though.
Reddy NR and others. Food Phytates, 1st edition, CRC Press, 2001, pages 30-32: PHYTATE41
As Percentage of Dry Weight
Sesame seeds dehulled 5.36
Brown rice 0.84 – 0.94
Parboiled brown rice 1.60
Milled (white) rice 0.2
I’m not sure how to make sense of that, but if anything, it indicates the phytates don’t change much. As long as it’s not a staple I wouldn’t worry about those, anyway.
CHeers.
Hi Nils,
You don’t start with white rice and then parboil it. Parboiled rice starts as ordinary brown rice, husk and all that is boiled to an extent, dried and then milled the way brown rice is usually milled to make white rice, only this way it produces parboiled rice which is also white.
Regards,
Edward
It’s simply called ‘parboiled rijst’: http://www.ah.nl/appie/zoeken?rq=parboiled
Is this the same as Minute Rice?
Charlie.
Nope, not really, though I don’t know the RS of minute rice. Could be higher. I suppose they are parboiling longer or something. I’m talking about Uncle Ben’s Original Converted or Parboiled rice.
manage subscription is NOT working for me right now. So I just make a comment and click on follow-up comments option
Soot, yea, there was a prob with that before that I got fixed and it broke again in the move. I’ll get it fixed again this next week.
Parboiled basmati rice is called Sella Rice. It needs to be soaked for at least 4 hours before cooking.
out of curiosity I tested my BG.
1) after a 1 hour HIT workout (30 secs recumbent bike all out sprint HR 154 Mets 10.1 by 90 seconds rest by 8 reps + 45 minutes upper body 5×5 lift)
2) 1 hour after a post workout shake that has 50g of Whey Protein Isolate/Hydrolized + 15g Maltodextrin + 10g Creatine Mono + 5g L-Glutamine + 10g Leucine
3) 1 hour after a post workout meal
4) 2 hours after a post workout meal
It is basically my smallish CARB Backload protocol. Unfortunately, I do not have numbers to compare before I started my RS protocol. Been doing RS for about 3 weeks now. Also, I’m cyclic LCHF Paleo whatever that means. Anyway, here are the numbers.
1:35 PM BG 79 – After HIT Workout
1:40 PM PWO Shake
2:40 PM BG 83
2:40 PM PWO Meal – 1lb steak, 3 eggs, avocado, plate of veggies, 1.5 cup garlic fried rice
3:00 PM Finished Meal
4:00 PM BG 100
5:00 PM BG 96
Was pleasantly surprised the I did not even hit 100+.
thoughts anyone ?
soot,
Those numbers look fantastic. Have you tested your numbers after a large carb meal without the HIT session. It will be interesting to see the comparision.
Please tell me that is not your regular PWO shake. You are probably wasting a lot of protein as one cannot synthesize more than 25 to 30 protein at a time. You might be better off to split your 50g pre and post workout. You are definitely taking more than twice the needed creatine- your body only needs about 3 – 5 g after your muscles have been saturated, which happens after about 30 days on a 5g dose. Leucine is probably an overkill too as your protein should already contain the required amounts.
T-Nat
yes. That is my regular post workout shake. It is based on Keifer’s Carb Backloading. I can’t articulate it clearly BUT it was explained in detail why on his book.
I don’t eat a large carb meal unless after a heavy workout. I tend to gain weight really fast if I do and the craving comes back hard. Although, I do 2 heavy workouts weekly sometimes even 3 when my HRV indicates I recovered already.
The first week I tried RS, I added more safe starches on my daily meal but it affected my active recovery workouts (Kung Fu and Tai Chi) because I felt heavy, dense and slow so I cut that off immediately. Will try that again after 3 more weeks and see if my body adjusted appropriately on my RS protocol.
However, the RS protocol is showing positive effects like great sleep, excellent bowel movement even on a day of high magnesium supplementation, BG control and second meal effect. I started tracking me FBG 2 days before I started RS and up the 1st week of the RS protocol my FBG was around 95-105. In the last few days it has been trending down to around 85-93.
sootedninja, thanks for the great info. what are you using to track your HRV?
Thanks.
I use emwave2 for meditation purposes BUT I also use it for HRV. What I do 1st thing I wake up is measure my FBG then a 5 minute HRV session using emwave2. I extract the RR data and import to Kubios to measure RMSSD which translate to HRV.
The BG looks great but what about the Cholesterol?
It’s not the same as minute rice. Minute rice is *completely* cooked and then dried out. Parboiled rice is *partially* cooked.
Today as an experiment I added a shot glass full of SCD EM Probiotics to my 2T Potato Starch. First thing AM empty stomach. I was expecting massive gas but got just the opposite. No gas at all – but also a massive headache. I’m suspecting some dehydration and/ or salt depletion but in trying repleting those only partially lifted the headache. Not sure what to make of this but reporting it anyway.
Hi JeffM, could it be that there are tyramines in the probiotic that caused the headache? The PS may have amplified the probiotic effects: http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/food_with_tyramine.html
Does dry oatmeal, which I understand is high in RS, lose any RS when soaked, not cooked, just soaked like you’d do beans? And, does it matter if it’s rolled or steel cut?
If you don’t heat it, retains 100% of RS. Whatever the diff is, if there is one, between rolled and steel cut, it would be the same after a soak.
Perhaps the Swiss with their Muesli have been onto something all along.
I’m half Swiss and have been eating oats all my life, Muesli included. Now I soak it, drain it, add ghee and cinnamon, cool it, then eat it with a little cream…
Charlie,
Rolled oats are steamed…so RS is mostly lost. Steel cut should have all the RS as in raw oats and try soaking in yogurt overnight. Throw in some raw honey as well while soaking. The good bacteria in yogurt should breakdown raw completely- meaning, the thick solid raw honey will completely melt. I did it for a while, it’s pretty good. But I am not sure of the phytates so I don’t do it any more.
T-Nat
Thanks T-Nat for the info, but like I said to Richard, I’ve eaten oats all my life without any ill effects and I’m 67, lean and in great health, so I’m not sure what oat phytates are suppose to do, but they don’t seem to do it to me.
Another question…If soaking beans then cooking them, then cooling them creates retrograde RS, why wouldn’t that same process hold for steel cut oats?
Yogurt and I don’t get along…and I’m from a long line of dairymen and milk drinkers…go figure.
To further clarify the yogurt comment…it’s milk, kefir and yogurt I don’t get along with (sinus congestion and heartburn…no gut issues) and I tolerate butter and a little cream.
I also get heartburn from nearly all fermented foods.
“If soaking beans then cooking them, then cooling them creates retrograde RS, why wouldn’t that same process hold for steel cut oats?”
Charlie, that’s a question I have as well. Wonder if the coating of bacteria on beans has something to do with the RS conversion. Maybe, Richard or Tatertot Tim can help us with it.
T-Nat
So, was this question about cooking and cooling steel-cut oats ever answered? I make large batches (I get gluten-free and add hemp, pumpkin, or chia seeds), freeze individual portions, and eat with blueberries for breakfast. I’ve been eating them on and off for 2 years, and I feel my bowel function is always better when I’ve been eating oats.
Try asian markets. 50% of the worlds rice production is supposedly parboil processed. Hard to believe that it can’t be found in the USA.
Paraboiled rice is so widely available in the USA. Heck, I buy mine from Costco. It’s available on Amazon. And I guarantee you will find it at any Indian grocery store. You need to try a little bit harder next time. Also, it is usually cheaper than white or brown rice.
T-Nat
As someone mentioned parboiled rice is fairly easy to recognize as the rice kernels are translucent (semi tranparent) versus opaque white of normal rice.
I don’t like that I the Uncle Bens is enriched with iron and such. Anyone else found another brand?
@Diane, search Amazon, there are lots.
@Natural, yeah seems steel cut would have all the anti-nutrients of raw grains, not only phytates. I once soaked and sprouted some wheat berries then fermented them along with some home made kefir. It was pretty good. The wheat made for a nice chewy texture in the kefir. Not a quick process but tasty and healthy.
What’s the consensus on arsenic levels in rice? I see the RS benefit of rice, but the threat of toxins outweighs the benefit for me.
I have been following along with the RS articles faithfully and was still under the impression that
brown rice was best for RS…
So, I went to Nijiya Japanese market in SF and picked up a ‘partially milled’ Japanese Brown Rice.
Cooks up nice and fluffy in the rice cooker at the same amount of time as white rice.
The cooked rice immediately goes in the fridge and I usually pull it out and let it get to room temp
before eating. I imagine this is still OK for RS?
Am I getting the same amount of RS, more or less, with ‘partially milled’ brown rice as the parbroiled Uncle Ben’s white?
…I did look on the internet for a bit, but couldn’t find my answer.
I have a ton of brown rice, but will switch to Uncle Ben’s if it is better overall than brown.
@Nathan
No, not the same. It is the parboiling that increases the RS, not the milling process.
Nathan, in traditional rice growing countries, the brown rice is only eaten immediately after harvest because the rice bran oil goes rancid really fast. This is one thing I don’t understand about people here eating brown rice. I don’t think they recognize the smell of the rancidity.
In order to store rice for longer periods of time, it is milled entirely. If you buy rice in bulk (10 pound bags) and it won’t get used up quickly, toss a couple of handsful of lentils into a knee hi pantyhose and put it in the bag. Then you won’t get weevils. Bugs hate legumes/pulses because they are toxic to them.
Forgot: you’re a guy. Put the beans or lentils into a ‘bachelor’ sock and tie up the end. You know, one of those socks that comes out of the dryer and you have no idea where the other one got to.
I usually fill those up with catnip, tie them off, and make cat toys out of them.
I usually wait till my girlfriends out before filling them up with coconut oil and going to town.
New research in on potato starch with rats:
http://pmid.us/10890035
Looking good. And here’s another one from just the other day:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3872076/
@Gabriella, well, I don’t know that much about rice as it was a no-no for me for so long. I definitely don’t smell anything rancid and it tastes great. This particular brand is ‘partially’ milled as I mentioned above.
I was more concerned with the RS profile of cooled parboiled vs brown rice.
I keep it a hermetic glass container with one of those moisture absorbing packets. I’m not worried about bugs getting in.
Well, unless someone tells me different, I may just go ahead and ditch the brown rice and try the Uncle Ben’s white parboiled. I’m doing the potato starch too with great results.
Thanks.
just like “Perhaps the Swiss with their Muesli have been onto something all along.” South Asian Indians also have had their traditional “Curd rice” for a few centuries. They cook parboiled rice, let it cool completely, mix milk with it (raw or low temp pasteurized at home) and then add some leftover yogurt as a starter and leave it overnight. The next morning this mixture is set like a pudding – it is now spiced up a bit by adding some turmeric, mustard and ghee and had for breakfast. Probiotic, Prebiotic (RS), curcumin – all in one superfood.
@Charlie, you are assuming that your health is because of rolled oats, not in spite of them? They are contributing nearly zero nutrients to your diet. Perhaps a little prebiotic soluble fiber by way of the bran, but it seems to me there are better, and more tasty, choices. Phytates are not such a serious thing as to cause bad health effects directly. What they do is prevent the absorption of the small amounts of minerals in the oats. So you’re basically getting only carbs from them and no nutrients. Not a big deal if your diet is otherwise good and nutrient rich.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/are-oats-healthy/#axzz2oxKLTiRB
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soaked-sprouted-fermented-grains/#axzz2oxKLTiRB
@resurgent, I’ve often wondered what effect antioxidants like turmeric, cinnamon, and cocoa powder have on gut flora.
Duck: great!! Especially for us ‘elderly mice’. ;)
I soaked a 1/2 C of McCann’s quick and easy steel cut oats in a cup of raw milk kefir over night and it turned out to be nice and thick. Added cinnamon and a half-envelope of splenda. Good stuff. Nice and chewy. Still hard to tell from this thread if has more RS than the same amount of rice and if it’s good for ya as a natural source of RS. I plan to test my BG at the 1 hr and 2 hr mark and see how I hold up.
Has anybody considered the arsenic levels of this stuff? Also, is Uncle Ben’s the only source of par-boiled rice, or are there other sources (and what do I look for on the label)?
I worry about that. High levels of arsenic in rice show up previous tobacco growing areas, like Carolinas ., and I think Texas. So get the rice from other places.
Link to Chris Kresser’s article on arsenic in rice.
http://chriskresser.com/arsenic-in-rice-how-concerned-should-you-be
Oh, it was the cotton growing part of the country, not tobacco.
Correct. They were trying to combat the cotton boil weevil with arsenic-based pesticides:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/arsenic-pesticides-in-our-food/
And rice has an affinity for soaking it up — particularly into the bran. The Consumer Reports URL linked to in the Kresser article shows that Uncle Ben’s (known for its Carolina origins, I believe) is on the high side of white rice arsenic levels — almost on par with some low-arsenic brown rices. California white rice (Lundberg) has about 1/3rd the arsenic of Uncle Ben’s.
http://bit.ly/1eRSuBz
If you can get a California par-boiled rice, that would be better, but I can’t help but wonder if some arsenic is pushed into the rice seed during the parboiling process. Meh.
I see a fair number of grocery stores have store-brand parboiled rice at prices not much different from white long-grain. The translucent, slightly yellowish kernels visible through the clear parts of the bags are confirmation that it’s parboiled. Wal-Marts with grocery sections have it — sometimes: Wal-Mart has gotten weird about keeping things in stock, probably due to bean-counters getting too clever, and I’ve started avoiding them.
Arsenic can be found in air, groundwater, soil, and rocks. What makes you think that ancient man did not eat it, or that it was not beneficial in small amounts? Modern man does not eat much dirt, so we don’t have that source. If you’re eating so much rice that you have to worry about arsenic levels then you will probably have other problems associated with a carb heavy yet nutrient poor diet. Potatoes might be a better bet, or at least added to the mix.
The cotton-growing belt was literally laced with arsenic pesticides. And rice is exceptionally good at soaking it up. So, we aren’t talking about naturally occurring arsenic. We’re talking about real pollution in particular regions of the world.
Update on kefir and McCann steel cuts oats experiment: 1 hr BG: 92! Not even going to test 2 hr mark. Also did PS at same time
In addition to arsenic, rice can contain lead. Here’s an article (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130410201824.htm) which states that rice samples from China, Taiwan, India, and Thailand came back with high lead levels. My take-away from reading about arsenic in rice is that we should avoid rice from the southern US, and stick with rice from California and Asia. So, if you want to avoid both arsenic and lead, you’re basically limited to rice from California.
Like another commenter, I have concerns about fortified rice. The Uncle Ben’s that came up on Amazon has folic acid in it, which I want to avoid due to my MTHFR mutation.
So… does anyone have a lead on a non-fortified, parboiled, California-grown rice? I couldn’t find any.
@Annika,
The Folic Acid enrichment can be removed with proper rice washing.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/03/food-fortification-a-risky-experiment/
Interesting! Thank you!
No problem. You can YouTube videos for proper rice washing and tricks. Basically you need to make sure the water is crystal clear when you are done. It takes a lot of water, but usually only takes about 3-4 minutes.
Annika,
I have found out recently that I have MTHFR mutation(A/C) as well. But I am not sure what remedial actions I am supposed to take. I understand that I need to take folic acid in chelated forms but did not know to avoid the folic acid in regular form. Can you point me to some literature?
I also heard from a natural doctor that MTHFR mutation could cause excessive free estrogen. Do you know anything about it?
Thanks in advance
T-Nat
Hoo boy. The MTHFR issue is a biggie, and very complex and hard for me to understand. I’m not 100% convinced it’s that much to worry about, especially if you’re heterozygous like me. MTHFR.net is one place to start, but I’m unsure how legit the guy is who runs it. A fair number of paleo bloggers have written about it. Googling “MTHFR + paleo” will get you articles written by the usual suspects.
Folic acid does not exist in unenriched foods – it is strictly a vitamin supplement added to food (or pills). Folks with methylation issues (MTHFR, for example) are unable to process it well. We need folate, the form that we get from food. Methyl folate is best for supplementation.
Subscribing. Can’t keep up all this amazing material otherwise.
I found a Parboiled White Rice (RICO) from Argentina, Uruguay, or China in a Publix grocery store in FL…3# for $2.99 (It is enriched like Uncle Ben’s.). A local Asian market didn’t have parboiled rice….they didn’t know what it was.
If you think an organic label would provide the safety, We could all go in for a group purchase of couple tons of organic parboiled rice from one of these companies. ;-)
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/organic-parboiled-rice.html
Here is a link to the Consumer Reports article about arsenic in rice. Richard, your Uncle Ben’s is not looking good!
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/11/arsenic-in-your-food/index.htm
Annika
I’m so over the “anti-nutrients” deal and I’m eventually gong to show everyone that ounce for ounce, “Paleo” nuts, that are eaten like candy are way worse than legumes.
Dose makes the poison. In fact, we all have certain levels of lead, mercury, arsenic, copper, and on and on.
My basic position is that no food really ought be a “staple.” When you look at the huge variety of what Paleoman ate, that was his salvation. Everything has some toxin or the other, in sufficient dose. Hell, you can die of drinking too much water too fast (that actually happened some years back on a radio talk show challenge).
So in one respect at least, bulk food is less toxic than water, because of its bulk. Your stomach is limiting. Whereas, you can really drink enough water to kill you.
I’ll add, Anika, that this whole anti-nutrient deal is a fool’s journey and Paleos are responsible for that, not LCers.
If you eat plants, you can not avoid toxins and anti-nutrients. They don’t have claws, teeth, or legs, and so chemicals are their defenses (except for fruit, which entices to be eaten and is relatively anti-nutrient free, so seeds can spread).
What we don’t know is at what level of arsenic and mercury ingestion (we all get both no matter what) it becomes negative. See, everyone assumes that any amount is bad when in fact, it’s likely more of a J-curve; where, _none_ is BAD, micro-micro-micro grams are good but not enough, and some just micro gram dose is “just right”…helpful hormetically. And then, significantly more than that, and it quickly becomes toxic.
Nobody said this was going to be easy.
I totally agree, Richard. But, I think we do need to pay attention to brands and regions. The arsenic we worry about isn’t naturally occurring, it’s from a farming practiced that encouraged a tremendous amount of pollution in a particular region.
I still eat good quantities of white rice each week, but I try to stay away from rice that was grown in the cotton belt. Our friend, Chris Kresser seems to have the right attitude:
Fair point, Duck. That’s why I say make nothing a staple, eat a lot. For me, in food terms, RS comes from rice, legumes, potatoes.
I think I’ll be fine. There’s three common staple foods and I’m taking none as staple food.
Or, you can wring hands, Google, go to great lengths, whatever. If you’re standard is zero, you are going to die young of worry.
Agreed.
Hmmm – I’m not sure how you are linking me to any discussion of anti-nutrients. I never mentioned them. In my mind, heavy-metal contaminants from industrial and agricultural pollution are a whole different ball game compared with naturally occurring anti-nutrients.
“a whole different ball game compared with naturally occurring anti-nutrients”
There are naturally occurring toxic concentrations that will kill you inside of minutes.
Try again.
I was referring to the anti-nutrients you brought into this conversation: “If you eat plants, you can not avoid toxins and anti-nutrients.” I wasn’t lumping all natural compounds into one big basket; obviously “natural” does not equal “safe” (duh). Highly poisonous natural compounds are, again, a whole different ball game than anti-nutrients in common foods (albeit on a continuum). A bowl of beans with a few lectins scares me a lot less than a bowl of rice that exceeds EPA limits for heavy metals.
I pretty much agree with you about anti-nutrients; that’s why I got my panties in a wad when you chastised me about them when I had never even mentioned them. I don’t like having words put in my mouth.
I come to this blog for the excellent, groundbreaking, and fascinating information you’ve been putting out about RS, and I thank you for getting the info out there. I don’t come to bicker. Some people thrive on contentious debate, but I’m not one of them; I have too thin a skin and take things too personally (working on it). So I’ll bow out and focus on the information.
“that’s why I got my panties in a wad”
I love women who just admit that. :)
“I have too thin a skin”
You underestimate yourself.
OK, did you see this?
http://www.ultimatehistoryproject.com/arsenic-eaters.html
in the Philippines, this is the place we grow and harvest our rice.
old world tradition
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/39702699.jpg
I think terraced rice fields are just awesome, especially from the air.
If you’re concerned about arsenic, a good band-aid fix is supplementing Spirulina.
Here is a study on Spirulina’s effect on 41 subjects with arsenic poisioning: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16615668
tl;dr Spirulina is pretty damn good at clearing arsenic.
Proper rinsing/washing of the rice and using a high volume of water:rice ratio (6:1) and tossing out the remaining water significantly reduces the arsenic load:
http://www.speciation.net/News/Using-the-right-recipe-for-cooking-rice-reduces-toxic-inorganic-arsenic-content-;~/2009/01/31/4088.html
Combine that prep with a non-Cotton-belt rice and you’re fine.
I haven’t even tried the high-volume water approach because I’m not really that concerned by a little arsenic. I think you probably only need to worry about it if you are eating cotton-belt rice as a staple.
I read that a while back on Colpo’s site (see the addendum section): http://anthonycolpo.com/why-doctor-janet-brill-author-of-cholesterol-down-is-absolutely-clueless/
And yeah, I’d agree that it’s little worry unless you’re eating cotton-belt rice as a staple. But some people probably are, so it’s an important caveat! :)
You guys gonna cut out fruit and vegetables too?… “Rice is not the only source of arsenic in food. A 2009-10 study from the EPA estimated that rice contributes 17 percent of dietary exposure to inorganic arsenic, which would put it in third place, behind fruits and fruit juices at 18 percent, and vegetables at 24 percent. ”
http://consumerreports.org/cro/arsenicinfood.htm
Nope. Just making sure that the total daily dose from all sources is low enough to avoid the poison (<5 mcg of inorganic arsenic). This is especially a concern for pregnant mothers (not a laughing matter).
Great idea. Please point me to the website that shows the ppm for all fruits, veggies, potatoes, chicken, turkeys, and prob lots of other things. USDA? didn’t think so.
I think the solution is farms should have to supply the USDA with soil samples and they should follow up with food tests *for all foods* not just rice.
You really think it’s not in corn and wheat?
Vegetables and potatoes can have arsenic as well as drinking water, fruit juice, and chicken and turkey meat due to high levels in their feed… http://www.offthegridnews.com/2012/04/23/arsenic-and-toxic-potatoes/
Oh, and I also read that wine can have it. Sorry! Time to grow your own food?
Stop being a dumbass. Nobody said anything about totally eliminating arsenic.
Hey dumbass, if you want to discuss something in detail, you have to discuss the details! I never said anything about eliminating it, or not. I’m merely pointing out all the foods that can have it in appreciable amounts and also that I think people are being anal about it with Rice given it shows up in almost anything if the soil it’s grown in has been polluted with arsenic heavy fertilizers/pesticides. So to be more explicit for people like you with duck-shit for brains…. THE TYPE OF FOOD IS NOT THE ISSUE. Has that sunk into your bird brain?
Sorry, you are incorrect… read the links below. Rice is exceptional at sucking up arsenic. Way more than other foods. Fuck off already.
Got your feathers all ruffled did I? Well you shouldn’t have opened your beak with that first unprovoked “dumbass” comment my dickless friend.
I suggest you take your emotionally driven bird brain and foul mouth over to ConsumerReports’ website since it’s their opinion you are arguing with, not mine.
@Brad, the reason you are such a dumbass is because the Consumer Reports article you are hiding behind very clearly supports my position. From the article:
In other words, the very article you keep hiding behind says that a single serving of Cotton-belt rice can give you a dose of arsenic that is well above the safe limit for a liter of drinking water in New Jersey, of all places, please be my guest. That’s a crap load of arsenic — particularly when you factor in other sources of arsenic on top of that.
So, yes, only a dumbass would try to use the very Consumer Reports article on the dangers of arsenic in rice to somehow argue that rice isn’t something to be concerned about. Well done.
@DumbDuck, I never said rice cannot be problematic. I think everyone here is keenly aware, that rice *can* suck up toxins in the water it grows in. Guess what, so can lots of other foods, most of them actually, some in large amounts if the soil is heavily contaminated. Silica/silicon after all is part of most plants’ biology, not only rice.
I’ve now mentioned TWICE the EPA study that CR references stating that rice is behind fruit and vegetables. Take note that this is not *my* study and it was not *me* who dug it up. It was CR. I made no claim as to it’s validity. It is what it is. Care to ignore it a third time? Again, if you want to dispute it, send an email to CR and stop bitching at me…
“A 2009-10 study from the EPA estimated that rice contributes 17 percent of dietary exposure to inorganic arsenic, which would put it in third place, behind fruits and fruit juices at 18 percent, and vegetables at 24 percent. ”
“Hiding behind”? That’s funny. Dude, you are inventing your own reality to propagate an argument with a messenger. I’m not hiding behind it but you surely are ignoring it.
But I have to ask again, what is the point of focusing on ONE food that *might* have a toxin in it, when damn near every single other food can have that very same harmful substance? If the dose makes the poison, rice is not that important unless you’re eating 80% of your daily calories in rice, in which case you’ve got bigger problems. If you eat 1/4-1/2 cup of rice per day but your getting arsenic, and who knows what else, in your corn, wheat, cucumbers, spinach, potatoes, apples, chicken, etc.? It all adds up.
I get that you should strive to eat clean rice. I get it, really! What I’m saying is you should strive to eat clean EVERYTHING, and so the FOCUS should be on the source of ALL food, the farm, and methods of production – fertilizers/pesticides used, etc.
Because what you fail to realize is that the NHANES EPA “estimation” is was calculated with simulation models that are highly criticized and likely flawed. As the Consumer Reports article points out, there’s something about rice that seems to be especially good at making people overly toxic with arsenic.
From your beloved Consumer Reports article:
In other words, the EPA estimate that rice supposedly only contributes 17 percent of dietary exposure to inorganic arsenic is likely a flawed underestimation — particularly when it comes to Cotton-belt rice and bioavailability.
The glorious NHANES EPA report that you think is so grand and perfect is also highly criticized because, besides the fact that it didn’t focus on cotton-belt rice, and it also doesn’t take the bioavailability of rice into consideration.
So, you can go on believing that the EPA’s NHANES “estimation” is somehow a perfect indicator of our arsenic consumption, but the EPA estimation isn’t supported by the data that actually examines people who consume rice as a staple.
@Brad, Normally it wouldn’t be worth mentioning, but rice was engineered to suck silicon (and therefore arsenic) out of the soil. So, it’s a natural arsenic accumulator and that is something to be mindful of if your rice comes from the cotton belt.
Personally, I’m not concerned (I just eat California rice), but you know people are going to be talking about it in the comments here for months to come if we don’t get it out of the way now. So, it’s best to get all the facts on the table and be done with it.
Whoops wrong link. The details on why rice is a particular concern is “a natural arsenic accumulator” documented here:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/research-projects/arsenic-in-plants.html
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/321/5886/184.full.pdf?sid=530e0a6f-bc89-4267-9151-560603772cef
Anyway, that’s what makes rice special. It’s not really a big problem unless you are Cotton-belt rice, which is pretty easy to avoid.
+1 Duck your comments are quite sensible. I was going to reply but you have covered it all.
@Duck, you’re right, it’s not worth mentioning. What is? That according to ConsumerReports, AS I POSTED ABOVE, said… “A 2009-10 study from the EPA estimated that rice contributes 17 percent of dietary exposure to inorganic arsenic, which would put it in third place, behind fruits and fruit juices at 18 percent, and vegetables at 24 percent. ”. Again, this is not about rice, it’s about safe/clean farming in general. Tell me what good does it do to eat clean rice but dirty fruit and veggies?
@Brad, AFAIK there’s no single food that soaks up more arsenic than rice. I find 17% to be signficant for a single food (as much as all fruits and fruit juices combined). It’s borderline dangerous if you chronically consume high-Arsenic rice as a staple food. Worse yet, pregnent women or young children.
So it’s plausible to exceed the safe levels. Conversely, just a few precautions and rice is perfectly safe. To recap:
1. Diversify diet
2. Choose low arsenic rice, like California
3. Boil rice in lots of water, and drain water
4. Perhaps consider Spirulina supplements
I think we’re mostly on the same page :)
The Consumer Reports article you mentioned also pointed out that a single serving of some Cotton-belt brands of rice exceed the safe limit. That’s what we are trying to avoid. We really don’t care about the normal exposure you keep dwelling on.
The EPA “estimate” is extremely flawed, especially because it does not focus on the worst offenders, such as cotton-belt rice and the high bioavailability of arsenic in rice.
Bangladeshi parboiled rice BR16 has GI index 27 ,i cannot find it in toronto indian grocery stores,seems to be hogged by indian diabetics in india,,i buy a parboiled basmati rice that is called diabetic rice and is 50% on the GI scale
Reading down this thread, particularly the part about arsenic in rice, the first thing that came to my mind was “I sure never want to eat rice from Bangladesh”. Bangladesh has a terrible arsenic problem with their water. Given the facts about rice being an arsenic sponge, I will steer wide and clear of Bangladeshi rice. In fact, I started worrying about the bag of Indian basmati I have on hand.
http://www.bgs.ac.uk/arsenic/bangladesh/
Orchis
See here:
https://freetheanimal.com/2014/01/lesson-makes-poison.html
Arsenic levels in rice are a non issue. You might want to divert your energy elsewhere.
Check rice from other countries if you are concerned. I read around about this arsenic business when it hit the news. So the information is out there.
By the way 5ppb isn’t shit according to the WHO. Also there is this, which I read as don’t worry about it.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/09/fda-arsenic-and-rice/
@Duck, Gonna shoot the messenger again? Get all pissy and start calling me names again? Am I hiding behind this article also?
As for long term effects, did I miss something?… I thought we can pee out arsenic, no? It accumulates in the body?
@Brad, I guess you don’t read the articles you post, because the WIRED article is pretty clear that the long term effects of high-arsenic rice from the cotton-belt are poorly understood.
Please, Brad, be my guest and you should eat as much cotton-belt rice as you would like to. You won’t hear any complaints for me.
Yes, you did miss something. The long term effects of arsenic are poorly understood as indicated in this recent critique of the EPA’s arsenic estimations and positions. The FDA is only beginning to investigate long term exposure, and the US rice industry is already putting pressure on the FDA to ignore the negative findings.
Hope you’re enjoying your cotton-belt rice. Eat up.
On a related note, I noticed on the Eden Foods website that with respect to their canned legumes, they are soaked overnight, then cooked prior to canning.
For those of us living in a household where only one person eats legumes, this seems to indicate that we might be able to skip a step or two if we use that brand?
I can’t find any data on exactly how much RS is in cooked parboiled rice. I’ve seen figures as high as 85% for potato starch. Does anyone know how much is in parboiled rice? If the percentage is very low, I will probably stick with PS, as I will overeat any form of rice and start putting on piles of blubber.
I saw a couple of parboiled rice options at my local Asian market (Lee Lee International Supermarket, 7575 W Cactus Rd, Peoria AZ). I didn’t get any, because I wasn’t willing to commit to 10 lbs until I look at other options. They did not appear to be enriched, but, I’m not entirely sure.
I did buy some plantains, and they had some very green bananas.
check this out….
http://robbwolf.com/2013/12/31/episode-212-guest-chris-kresser/
“Listen to the podcast I recently did with Chris as we discuss gut health, resistant starch and a preview of his book.”
Mad props to Richard! Robb gave a major shout out about impact to him personally about PS. First 10 min was great then Kresser went on way too long about things that made no sense and was just pimpin products and his book. Am I the only one who finds him slightly annoying? Robb rocks! Congrats Richard. A nice start to 2014!
Ugh, Kresser is unbearable. He repackages material from other people (MDA, Guyenet, Cordian, WA Price, and now RIchard, etc.), rarely coming up with any novel insights.
One time on his podcast he recommended homeopathy. LOL.
He’s also an acupuncturist, a sham practice (read more on acupuncutre on Science-Based Medicine blog).
Perhaps what bugs me is his dishonesty. He acts like he’s a doctor/researcher/scientist, but he’s not even close.
A 100g raw dose contains:
81 g carb
2 g fiber
Where do these numbers come from? My Uncle Ben converted parboiled rice box says zero for fiber
Otzi the ice man was an arsenic eater. A little bit of arsenic improves endurance at high altitudes. Don’t stress about it people. Read this instead: http://www.ultimatehistoryproject.com/arsenic-eaters.html
I’m with you here. Less than 10ppb (billion!) is below the US limit for 1 liter of water. It’s nothing!… if you’re a hypocondriac then eat potatoes, which are also more nutrient rich than rice.
OK, I’m not really “with you” on the purposely eating it part. I presume you were being sarcastic? But miniscule amounts I don’t have a problem with.
Jeez Richard are you still banging on about resistant starch, give it a rest and dump the carbs.
You know it makes sense, why fight it.
Eddie
Eddie
You are perfectly welcome to expose your ignorance of my 50 posts on resistant starch, thousands of comments that include hundreds of anecdotes worldwide, and all the rest like Steve Cooksey’s experiment, how well it’s helping diabetics including type 1s, and even Robb Wolf’s podcast yesterday with Chris Kresser where they mention the work here, sing the praises of RS and how much it has helped Robb with his own issues.
You get to be as blissfully ignorant of all of it as you like, and even get to strut around here exposing yourself.
Knock yourself out.
“Jeez Richard are you still banging on about resistant starch, give it a rest and dump the carbs.
You know it makes sense, why fight it.”
Jeez Silly Eddie, please explain to us in detail why Richard, or anyone else for that matter, would want to follow YOUR advice? Methinks we have a troll on board.
Is the RS in parboiled rice increased after you fully cook it at home THEN cool it before eating, or is it maximized by the first heating/cooling cycle from parboiling it?
Thanks.
Nonpave
I believe the biggest bang is from the parboiling, but as with all RS3 foods, every cook & cool cycle increases it. So, what does not get eaten when I cook it is cooled for later various use and the other day, I made a whole 2 1/2 cup batch that went straight to the fridge.
Richard, did you see the Gut Project’s Facebook post today? He put his biome pie graph up — he changed his 10% macro carbs to no starchy! fibrous plants and his biome changed dramatically – in 10 days. Also, in his own comments below, he actually pooh poohs the RS trend. Strange because his pie supports the need for prebiotic starches. Check it out.
I just commented on his IGNORANCE.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=594416030643965&set=a.320702151348689.74407.235960469822858&type=1
I’d place a bet he thinks he knows it all, probably hasn’t read any of these posts, probably none of the comments or anecdotes.
Well, to be clear, Jeff reduced his carbs to prove a point about the negative aspects of going low carb. He wasn’t trying to promote a low carb diet or anything like that.
It was disappointing to see him pooh-pooh RS supplementation, but at least Jeff has made it clear that he is a big fan of consuming RS in food.
I t would be interesting to see his result if he did low carb + fat + meat and the 4TBS or more of RS.
While keeping veges on the lower side.
so what are the advantages of having more Firmicutes vs Bacteriodetes ?
Webmd getting on the bandwagon
http://www.webmd.com/diet/carb-lovers-diet
@Brian
Deleted your comment with a smile.
If you want to take people away from my blog over to whatever you want to create, 2 options:
1. send me a big check and I’ll promote it.
2. do it yourself.
You’re welcome to participate, but try to take folks over to your own gig on my dime, I cut your fucking throat.
Are we clear, man?
Sorry Richard. My intention was nothing but sincere to keep the chatter alive. I delete the group if you want me to. I’m on your side.
@Brian, that’s like the opposite of (support your local farmer). What you should be doing is the opposite – placing FTA links on Facebook pages that are talking about things like Carbs, obesity, weight loss diets, etc. I will suggest to the doctor over here who runs the largest Paleo/low-carb blog (~200K hits/mo.) in Brazil/Portuguese that he reference and give prop’s to FTA on his blog for that portion of his English speaking audience. I think that’s the least he should do as payback for all the RS info he discovered on FTA. I think his practice and patients is/will-be benefitting from it. Granted, it prob won’t add much in the way of traffic to FTA.
One thing that is really annoying about FTA however for discussion purposes is the format and the long time that it takes for pages to load due to the very long discussion threads. I would suggest a more sophisticated software that at least uses pages/paging so it will load only the first page and you can jump to the last page if desired.
Hi brad
I’ll just delete the group. I’m’ sure it could be used to compliment this site and drive traffic and post blog updates etc but probably more trouble than its worth. If Richard would like to figure out how to embrace Facebook to enhance the discussion, traffic, promotion etc then I’ll leave it to him. I was just excited. :). It’s his gig not mine.
Brian,
Facebook sucks big time. Richard may want to create his own FTA forum one day, with conversation threading, FAQs, and a good search tool as part of it to keep things organized and archived in an orderly fashion that will actually help people, but that’s his call.
With Facebook, the whole thing is very difficult to search and archive in an efficient manner. Facebook is really only good for real-time messaging. Not so much for research and documentation the way a real forum is.
And Richard…. if you did want to ever create an FTA forum, I’m sure you know it’s very easy to do. Many of us would be more than willing to help you set it up if you needed the help.
Hey guys.
First, Brad, no sweat. I get uppity sometimes, especially as I hear increasingly in various places about RS, with no attribution and if not for me, at least for Tim.
Duck, for me a forum is just too distracting and I can’t police it. Plus, it would drive my bandwidth through the roof, probably pretty costly. But, I’ll chew on it.
The best place to go now is Sisson’s place. In fact, there are already lots of threads on RS. Tim is typically pretty active over there. I suppose a subredit would be feasible to, though I typically can’t stand the kind of people who hand out on redit, or at least r/paleo.
@Richard
I find this format very refreshing, the comments are on topic.
I hate f###ing forums they end up being a mess of useless info and people talking shit.
I like it the way you have it, thanks for a clean direct site.
Np
My thoughts too. Comment threads are self limiting. They die out, or get superseded by new posts and new comments. I just don’t get pulling people away to go into a relatively cloistered forum that only true fans frequent.
Not sure I even want true fans.
eh, was just a thought. I really need to get a faster internet connection.
Would love to hear thoughts on this resistant starch ice cream. Will be good to see how to add stuff like this to ones diet. Reminds me of tater tots raw cookie recipe.
http://spabettie.com/2014/01/13/dreamy-dark-chocolate-oat-cream/
In the late 1980’s I was involved in the Macrobiotic community. Saw a lot of people ruin their health. A lot. Particularly men, white men. There isn’t anything magical about rice and beans. Some people may be better off including them in their diet. Others, definitely not. Were these Macrobiotic types getting plenty of RS? According to what I am reading here, yes they did, but … I swear by my daily dose of PS a la Tatertot and have no plans to give it up but I have been down the rice and beans and grains path and won’t be going down it again. Yeah, I enjoy a little white rice on the weekend sometimes but that is it.
@kayumochi,
Been there, done that, almost killed myself. Took a few years to recover, but had cavities after that for the first time in my life. Up to my 20s, I had zero cavities, despite, as a youngster, eating tons of sugar, sometimes right out of the sugar canister, lots of candy and soda. I never brushed my teeth (I know, ewwwww!). But I drank a half-gallon or so of whole milk every day growing up. And zero cavities, no bad breath, until I decided dairy was the devil, and rice and beans were it. That, as it turns out, is a great way to f*ck up your tooth enamel and open the door to cavities. Among a lot of other things.
To this day I suffer from gut issues because of Macrobiotics with all its rice and beans and such. I have seen women do okay on that diet … but men? Forget it.
What has this to do with anything we’ve ever talked about?
Walt: “Castor beans”
Jesse: “So, what are we going to do with them? Are we just gonna grow a magic beanstalk? Huh? Climb it and escape?”
Walt: “We are going to process them into ricin.”
Jesse: “Rice ‘n Beans.”
Walt: “Ricin. It’s an extremely effective poison.” “
I don’t think it’s been answered. I take raw uncooked steel cut oats and put in greek yogurt and let it sit overnight and eat it in the morning. Nice and chewy. From Richard’s chart – it shows it as pretty high RS. Looking forward to the book and recipe ideas of how to incorporate RS into the diet beyond the ‘just eat more cold potatoes/rice’
@Brian, I did this once. 24 hours fermentation gave me severe stomach cramps. Did it again with 3 days fermenting prior to eating and I was fine.
I haven’t been able to find any information on phytic acid content of parboiled rice. Does anybody have any input here? Thanks in advance.
Weirdly, the Dunar Sella rice I bought does not include rice to water ratio specifics. Anyone know the proper water to rice ratio for white sella/parboiled basmati rice?
With most rice it’s typically 1.5-2 parts water to 1 part dry rice, depending on whether you like it dryer or moister. Pretty much holds for most I’ve tried.
Should we be concerned on the toxins or contaminates in any of these brands. Is there such a thing as Organic parboiled/sella rice?
New information for me. I stopped eat rice and this article make me questions.
Is there a new article on rice? could not find it..
I didn’t realize that preparing this kind of rice required soaking, steaming and drying all while inside the husk. It would make sense that because it is still inside the husk that more of the nutrients are kept inside the kernel instead of leaking out into the water. Perhaps I’ll have to try to find a parboiled rice supplier who lives nearby that could help me get some to try with my family.
Washing the rice reduces arsenic. Wouldn’t worry too much,