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A Quick Revisit of the Resistant Starch Research

Remarkable T2 Diabetes Reversal: From VLC to Starches and Resistant Starch

February 13, 2014 132 Comments

You gotta see this. Diagnosed T2, with diabetic ketoacidosis and blood glucose of 680 and afterward, readings around 200+. Tried controlling with very low carbohydrate, got down to fasting readings of 140, but then worse and worse as time went on.

Here’s what happened when she added resistant starch and later, 100-200 grams daily of starchy carbohydrates.

Michelle // Feb 12, 2014 at 19:58

I have what might seem a silly question. Is a (non insulin or diabetes drug-using) person still technically a T2 diabetic if they eat a few of tbs of potato starch a day, prepare their starches to maximize RS, along side eating mostly Perfect Health Diet-style (plus beans and occasionally bread) for a few months and their blood glucose reading goes from difficult to keep under 200 to under 100 almost all the time? That’s me.

I was following VLC for a few months after being diagnosed this last summer as a T2 with great results at first, diminishing with each subsequent month. I had no signs of diabetes blood-work wise in previous years. I got sick and keeled over from diabetic ketoacidosis, in August. My BG was 680 at the time.

This last fall, all I had to do is look at carbs for BG to spike. Even with VLC, I was having more and more trouble with the dawn phenomenon, waking up with BG of 180+ every day. It got to where I was only able to eat a few fat bombs a day to keep my BG under 140, and I started looking for answers. Found FTA in November and ran with the starch. Huzzah for the starch!

I started upping my carbs two months into my personal n=1 PS experiment that started in November and now eat between 100-200 grams of carbs (tho I’ve had days where I ate up to 600) and my blood glucose per my meter is great. I ate a mound of Richard’s garlic fried rice with a steak and green beans tonight, and my BG before: 95, to one hour after: 110. Two hours, down to 90. It seems like the more carbs I eat the lower my reading goes.

I am very gratified, and wonder: am I really still diabetic? I imagine “yes” if I go back to SAD. I just don’t know.

~~~

She posted some some follow-on info below that linked comment. Pretty amazing story. I think it really, once again, calls into question everything about very low carb, even for T2 diabetics, at minimum. Perhaps not applicable to T1s, since they’re not producing insulin at all.

Starchy food for thought? I wonder if any other T2s will give this a try. But remember her protocol. She stayed VLC for 2 months wile on the potato starch, then transitioned to a Perfect Health Diet-style of between 100g and 200g daily. Plus, she’s eating clean: starches from white rice, potatoes and beans. Don’t try this with gluten grains and sugar water. I’d also suggest that once you ramp up your RS over a couple of months to 2-3 TBS per day, that you add in the starches slowly (discount non-starch vegetable carbs), like perhaps 50g additional per week, spread between all of your meals.

Update: Lots more background info at these comments below, here and here.

Update 2: In case you may happen to run across a schizophrenic, bipolar, OCB female who laughingly pretends she knows more than everyone else put together, is so ignorant about resistant starch that she thinks she “get[s] a lot” (direct quote) from her corn wraps, and asserts that type 2 diabetics don’t present with ketoacidosis: Diabetic Ketoacidosis in Type 2 Diabetics: A Novel Presentation of Pancreatic Adenocarcinoma.

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Filed Under: General Tagged With: diabetes, Resistant Starch

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Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. MrPotatoStarchHead February 13, 2014 at 07:32

    How much protein was she eating on VLC?

    Reply
  2. AJ February 13, 2014 at 08:27

    Great story.
    Would be helpful to know how much PS she is using?
    Would be helpful to know when she takes it, all at once or spread out through the day?
    I’m happy for her.

    For me as a Type II and taking 4Tbs of PS a day(twice a day) for 2 months, my blood sugars remain high and even higher with Rice & Bean. Fasting glucose remains unchanged unfortunately. Sleep is noticeably better though.

    Wondering if I should take the 4Tbs all at once.
    I do know my gut health is compromised and is a work in progress to heal which may be leading to the minimal results on my blood glucose.

    Thanks for the continuing series on RS Richard.

    AJ

    Reply
    • Richard Nikoley February 13, 2014 at 08:55

      AJ, I believe she said 3 TBS.

      What I would suggest is a slow ramp up, maybe 1/2 C of rice per meal. You might need to “exercise” with light weights before going to 2 C heavyweight in a single meal. You might ask Paul on the PHD site what he thinks.

      Or, it just might be something that doesn’t work for you.

      Another idea is that you do this same thing but maybe first with beans, then with potatoes, then with rice, so you can see which starch works best for you.

    • AJ February 13, 2014 at 09:45

      Thanks for the recommendations.
      Luckily the tinkering process and individual adaption of this is the part I love.

    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:08

      AJ, how much exercise do you do? On days when my glucose does go out of control, a one hour postmeal glucose can be reduced about 30 points just by a 30 minute walk. Two 30 minute walks during a day can make a huge difference.

    • Joyce Barron September 6, 2015 at 19:33

      Have you ever tried an Indian herb named holy basil or tulsi? I learned about it when my husband was having a hard time with the dawn phenomenon and looked into its properties. It has a chemical compound that increases gaba. I have narcolepsy and am familiar with xyrem being used for this purpose. I have tried it for both him and me and it’s helping with fragmentation of sleep and vivid dreams as well

  3. Julie February 13, 2014 at 09:02

    Hope this isn’t off-topic but I’ve just started Chris Kresser’s 30-day ‘Paleo Reset’ diet in which he says that people with a possible autoimmune disease (like me) shouldn’t eat white potatoes. I’ve been taking potato starch for the last month (no effects yet) and wondered if I should switch to another source of RS.

    I live in the UK, which is a further complication – we don’t seem to have plantain flour, tapioca flour and so on easily available.

    Has anyone in the UK (or Europe) found a non-potato RS product?

    Richard and Tim – I expect you’ve already thought of this but in your book it would be great if you could include product info for those of us outside the US (perhaps by crowdsourcing it via your blog).

    Reply
  4. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 09:04

    I got to where I could hardly eat protein on VLC without BG spiking. I tried to stick to 3 oz of any kind of meat at any meal, and ate cheese/dairy. Like i said in my comments, I ended up eating 3 or 4 fat bombs a day and nothing else in a desperate attempt to control BG, so near the beginning of the N=1 experiment I was eating very little.
    I take 4 -6 tbs starch a day over the average. I don’t take the same amount each time, I vary it like Richard suggested. I’ll take 2 tbs with milk, water or kefir and slug it down, or mix a couple of tbs in yogurt and eat it for a treat. I take the second two, or whatever amount, in the evening in a bit of water before bed. Got rid of horrific heart burn doing that. My husband and adult daughter are on the starch now as well. Too soon to say anything about results but they don’t have the health challenges I’ve had.

    I worked my way up to the larger amount of PS over the first month and was seeing small changes in my BG but not enough to really say it was working well. When I read in multiple comments that there’s hardly any response when in ketosis, I decided it was time to start adding carbs. I started with beans, as I discovered quickly potatoes and rice would send BG spiking up. Once I adjusted to eating *properly prepared for RS* beans, I started adding in rice *UB parboiled, prepared for RS*. It took a couple of weeks to adjust. After I stopped spiking over rice, I added potatoes. I figure out what I am going to eat for the whole day, then break up my percentages of protein, carb and fat per PHD amounts, then eat that in two or three meals. I seem to have gravitated towards an 18/6 eating pattern without consciously attempting it. I don’t start getting hungry until 10 or after, so eat my first meal when I get hungry, usually close to noon. I don’t eat after 6 pm as I am not anxious to tempt the heartburn into coming back.

    I am still not touching fruit or sugar. I plan on trying strawberries and in-season fruit this spring, seeing if I can readapt to them the same way I have with starches. I don’t know if it will work but I am willing to try.

    It is not a perfect curve; I still get the odd spike, especially in the morning. But overall, my BG is remaining in “normal” range 95% of the time. I am warm, I am starting to get some lovely fuzz on my forehead where the hair is starting to grow again, I am sleeping all night for the first time in my adult life and I feel REALLY good, physically and mentally. The starch calm high is amazing.

    Reply
    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:13

      For me, so far, the raw potato starch has improved sleep and stool volume. But I feel it has made my blood glucose control worse not better.

      I don’t have enough data yet to make positive statements or quantify. Some of these data points could change as my gut evolves. I’ve backed down my dose to one or two tablespoons each night until I get a better handle on the impact of starch on my blood glucose.

  5. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 09:15

    For those curious, I am female, turned 47 in January. I am tall and fat as a house and starting to move from sedentary to ambulatory now that I feel human again. No regular exercise pattern other than keeping an eye toward MovNat type jumping around and walking the dogs. I have abused my body with the worst kind of yoyo dieting since I was age 6, including a failed 4 year experiment with a lap band that almost killed me by cutting my stomach open. Thank goodness it’s gone. I am amazed I am still alive with all the foolishness I have committed.

    Sorry I am blah blahing about myself so much but I am trying to add any datapoints that are useful in pinning down why this is working.
    Oh yeah, the cons:

    At times, the fartage is unreal. for me it seems to be linked with how much carbs I have consumed. The higher the carbs, the greater the fartage. Dark beer is the WORST for fartage. I love the stuff but I can clear a house with the gas afterward. At some point I am going to have to do something to make adjustments.

    PS is a hunger crusher. I find I am bored with food in a way I’ve never been, even on VLC. I mean BORED.

    Also, other dietary additions that started in January: daily dosing with Vit D drops, weekly dosing of Vit B complex drops, one K2 capsule a day, and Vit E when I can remember it.

    Reply
    • Charles February 13, 2014 at 16:32

      I think the PS fixes the gut biome which fixes satiety signaling. In my case that’s been dramatic. I don’t have too many cravings, and I’ve really learned to ignore them after doing this for 40+ years. It was mostly out of self-defense. I was a fat kid and very carb sensitive. I never wanted to be fat again, and I wanted to have energy and good health. So I trained myself to eat right, consciously. After five months on potato starch, I don’t crave anything much anymore. I enjoy food, but the background of dietary discipline that I’ve built up over four decades no longer seems necessary. It’s a hell of a lot easier to make good choices.

  6. Resurgent February 13, 2014 at 09:25

    “I think it really, once again, calls into question everything about very low carb, even for T2 diabetics, at minimum. Perhaps not applicable to T1s, since they’re not producing insulin at all.”

    Richard – I would wait till a T1 person tries this and reports the results. Our ‘health’ is a condition heavily modulated by our gut biome. We are still scratching the surface.

    Reply
    • Charles February 13, 2014 at 16:33

      T1’s have tried this and have reported results, and they have been able to reduce insulin.

  7. Paul Jaminet February 13, 2014 at 10:37

    Hi V,

    I replied over on PHD. http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2014/02/encore-day-paleocon-perfect-health-retreats/comment-page-1/#comment-389931.

    Reply
  8. Kim February 13, 2014 at 12:08

    I am a T2 diabetic and am currently taking 500 mg ER of Metformin x 4 per day. Since I started eating vlc, probably ketogenic, my fasting blood sugar is under 100 (usually in the high 90s) and when testing before dinner, I have had some readings around 88. I may try the RS protocol and then try to ramp up my carb intake and see what happens. I really want to get off the metformin as it causes unpleasant side effects for me. I have some potato starch at home already. I know that my gut is not working great as any time I eat vegetables or fruit (like the little bit of apple in chicken/apple sausage), it sends me to the bathroom. I do have low thryroid and also am on blood pressure meds. My doctor told me my thyroid wasn’t low because of a low carb diet but because since I am so overweight and have the diabetes, that it’s probably affecting my thyroid right now.

    Reply
    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:16

      One THIRD of all people of European descent have fructose malabsorption. You can confirm it with a hydrogen breath test, and these tend to only be offered through labs of major hospitals or universities with hospitals.

      I wouldn’t assume that a compromised gut accounts for the problems with fructose.

  9. rs711 February 13, 2014 at 12:26

    I’m glad you’re feeling better Michelle, kudos on your continued efforts!

    Did you every measure your urine, breath or blood ketones when trying to VLC?
    What kind of milk were you drinking? Whole? skimmed? pasteurized? UHT? (same Q for the yoghurt)
    When you mention fat bombs – what kind of fat was it? Poly 3 &/or 6? Mono? Sat?
    Did you eat veggies?
    Were you taking those supplements you mentioned while VLCing &/or after adding in some PS? What about when you switched to the recommended PHD ratios of 30/30/40?

    Sorry for all the questions but I’m trying to understand your case more exactly – on the surface it seems to be a curious result.

    All the best!
    Again

    Reply
  10. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 13:01

    I used ketostix to check and see if I was in ketosis. Purple as all get out. Interestingly, I lost absolutely no weight, after the big drop just before the DK episode. I did gain 10 pounds in January, adding carbs. I’ve lost a few of those this month but I am not attempting to diet beyond working on keeping the PHD ratios.

    I drink one teaspoon of whole milk in tea, plus maybe 1/4 cup with the PS. I can’t stand low fat milk. I use heavy whipping cream in coffee, one tsp per cup, 2 cups daily. That uses up almost all the fat I have in a day. Butter is about the only other fat I use. If I eat the PS in yogurt, I eat a scant 1/4 cup of full fat plain greek yogurt.

    I made fat bombs from coconut oil, cream cheese, sometimes unsalted butter, occasionally cocoa powder or 85% dark chocolate. When I was eating fat bombs I ate them exclusively as it seemed like my BG would spike when I ate any food :/ I was eating a small amount of salad and green or nonstarchy veg during the beginning of VLC. I eat veggies now, in the form of small salads, or a side veg, plus the occasional bite of jarred kimchee from the store.

    I started taking the supps approximately the same time I started the PHD, on Jan. 1.

    I hope this helps. I don’t mind questions; it helps me to think carefully about what I’ve one with this N=1. If the data is useful, I am glad.

    Reply
  11. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 13:05

    To adjust a poorly worded comment: the heavy whipping cream uses up all the extra added fat I will have during the day, over the top of butter in cooking, fat in the meat and dairy I eat. The majority of the fat I eat comes from butter for cooking, although I will use coconut oil if I have it *and can afford it:)*

    Reply
  12. Jane Karlsson February 14, 2014 at 07:07

    Richard, I think you need to talk to Paul Jaminet about white rice. He said in 2011 ‘We like white rice, but if evidence showed it to be unhealthy we’d be equally quick to stop eating it.’ This evidence is now available, in a 2012 study from China showing an association between white rice and diabetes.
    http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/21/1/35.pdf

    White rice has had nearly all its magnesium removed. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to diabetes in many human and animal studies.

    Reply
    • SteveRN February 14, 2014 at 11:27

      I don’t think that means it is unhealthy, just that you don’t get any magnesium from it. Lots is foods are missing some nutrients but are still healthy. That’s why you have a variety of foods you should eat, to cover all your bases. Personally, I think mag is so important and so depleted from the soil that I supplement it heavily, Almost next to impossible get enough via food.

    • DuckDodgers February 14, 2014 at 11:35

      Jane,

      That study certainly doesn’t show that rice causes diabetes. All it shows is that rice causes an increase in blood sugar (duh).

      Paul Jaminet already addressed these poorly designed studies here:

      http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/03/red-meat-and-white-rice-oh-my/

      In a country, increase in any carb consumption (i.e. in China, that just happens to be rice) correlates with a greater chance of being diagnosed with diabetes. That doesn’t necessarily mean that rice or carbs cause diabetes. It just means that increasing carb consumption makes the symptoms of diabetes more visible.

      In any case, in that link, Jaminet shows quite convincingly that the countries that tend to eat the most white rice also tend to have the lowest incidence of diabetes.

    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:27

      Jane, that is a pretty horrible study. First, they are comparing rice, against more rice, against even more rice. It’s difficult to evaluate rice against other starches when you don’t make any comparison.

      Second, they don’t control for other factors in the diet. The person who ate >400 grams of white rice might also be more likely to down seven sodas and eat huge bowls of fruit and lots of grains. That person is a walking war chest of metabolic syndrome precursors. How do we place any blame on rice there?

      Rice is the key starch used in most long-lived asian geographies. I think Paul has it right.

    • Jane Karlsson February 21, 2014 at 04:48

      Pone, the study does that. Look at Table 3 and you will see that as rice intake goes up, flour intake goes down. In the north they eat wheat and in the south they eat rice. Table 3 also shows that as rice intake goes up, so does vegetable intake.

      If you take the work of this group as a whole, what they seem to have shown is that white flour makes you fat and diabetic, and white rice makes you thin and diabetic. We are often told white rice is OK because the Japanese are thin. Actually they have more diabetes than we do.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19795421

    • DuckDodgers February 21, 2014 at 20:21

      Jane,

      The Japanese study clearly implicates “recent” changes for the growth in Japanese diabetes. Since rice has been around for thousands of years, it’s an unlikely culprit.

      Sounds like you are grasping for straws to demonize rice for some reason — as if one or two studies could really pinpoint rice as being a sole cause for diabetes. Fact of the matter is that your hypothesis doesn’t account for the countries that eat the most white rice and have the lowest incidence of diabetes:

      http://perfecthealthdiet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/rice-v-diabetes-OP.jpg

    • Pone February 21, 2014 at 21:21

      To me the most obvious evidence is that when you take Japanese on their traditional diets and bring them to the West, their disease progression – including diabetes – occurs as they shift from the traditional diet to Western processed food diets and grains.

      To me the research Jane quotes is a very very bad study design. They do not control for many other things, and the fact that people at the high end of rice consumption consume “less grains” doesn’t really address the fact that these people are consuming LOTS of UNSAFE STARCH, in addition to the rice. All bets off once you cross that line and start eating large quantities of processed and unsafe starch. They are loaded with Omega-6 in processed foods, imbalanced against Omega-3, etc, lots of irritation and autoimmune triggers from proteins in grains, etc etc.

      What I do believe is that if you eat processed foods, toxic grains, and get substantially large amounts of caloric intake from carbohydrates (say >40%), then probably additional carb intake will provoke glucose control problems. In that case you are forcing the body to deal with excess glucose intake, and it really doesn’t matter where you get that excess glucose from. Rice is just a placeholder but it could be any kind of starch and if you overeat calories and carbs, you are at extra risk of diabetes.

    • Jane Karlsson February 22, 2014 at 04:20

      DuckDodgers
      Please read the comment I just posted to Pone. White rice has had nearly all its magnesium and most of its manganese removed. The starch cannot be metabolised without these metals. Eating it without them is going to cause diabetes in susceptible people.

      I have biology degrees from Oxford and Cambridge, and I have spent 30 years studying the biomedical literature full time. I was fortunate enough to inherit money so I could do this. No academic institution will fund someone who wants to read the literature.

    • Richard Nikoley February 22, 2014 at 07:44

      Jane:

      Any info on the Mg and Mn content of parboiled vs. plain white rice? Googling around, appears to be higher. I did a post on parboiled rice, not sure if you saw it.

      https://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/parboiled-nutritious-resistant.html

      At any rate, the previous point I made still stands.

      1. Even in the PHD diet, rice is not a staple and it’s to be consumed with protein and veggies.

      2. Paul also has storage organs, so even at 30% carbs total, maybe you’re looking 15-20% from rice.

      3. If you add legumes (garbanzos high in Mn, I see), you get more Mg and Mn, and reduce rice load even further.

      I really don’t understand why you keep beating this drum, as though someone is advocating white rice as a 60% staple or something.

    • gabriella kadar February 22, 2014 at 08:03

      Duckie, it looks like it’s not the rice. More like overeating in general, lots of abdominal fat, and in those countries where diabetes is now skyrocketing, low lean muscle mass.

      The BMI is adjusted for those societies where lean muscle mass is low. In India, a BMI of 25 is considered to be obese. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3307188/#!po=2.50000

      They have skinny legs and arms but marshmallow tummies.

    • DuckDodgers February 22, 2014 at 11:06

      Jane, That’s all very interesting, but I think you’re going to need to do better than that in terms of presenting evidence. I’m sure you can find a few papers that show deficiencies can exacerbate insulin issues, but that still doesn’t explain why the countries that consume the most white rice have the lowest incidence of diabetes. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Indonesia, Cambodia, etc. those countries consume the most white rice but have the lowest incidence of diabetes. If anything, those countries show that white rice consumption is protective of diabetes.

      Now, you can continue to ignore that paradox, or you can address it here.

      And, as Richard pointed out, nobody here is advocating making rice a staple. We all eat a variety of carbs.

    • Pone February 22, 2014 at 16:02

      Wow, Jane, you would be my dream girl being able to spend a lot of time reading science, and then not have the pressure of publication or commercial job. And if you were Taylor Swift, then I could spend another one third of my time writing poetry and song lyrics.

      Ah, the dream. 🙂

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:00

      Yes I saw your post on parboiled rice. As you say, the Mg content is not improved.

      I don’t understand why you keep beating this drum. Brown rice is delicious.

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:03

      I’m doing something wrong here. I wanted to reply to Richard and my post ended up somewhere else.

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:58

      DuckDodgers
      White rice may appear to be protective because white flour is worse. In many countries white flour is ‘fortified’ with iron. Diabetes is linked to iron overload. Some scientists are trying to argue iron fortification is counter productive but no-one is listening.

      Gabriella
      Why do you think people eat too much? Guyenet’s group has found brain damage in obese people, in the satiety centre of the hypothalamus. The damage appears to be due to oxidative stress. The most important antioxidant enzyme is MnSOD, a manganese enzyme.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 05:05

      Jane, I bought germinated brown rice a while back because it’s supposed to have GABA. I’m not doing it anymore because it came out my backside looking exactly like it went in the front. Waste of money as far as I can tell. I’m not going to chew every mouthful 50 times. I don’t need to wear down my teeth. When I made an effort to chew it more often, the ‘end product’ was somewhat less ‘ricey’ but still indicated poor digestion of product.

      I get my magnesium from coconut water, Epsom salt baths, and the occasional 200 mg tablet. 1 litre of coconut water = 200+ mg of magnesium. The potassium can’t hurt either. Calories are not really an issue approx. 200 kcal per 1 litre. I don’t eat peanut butter which apparently is a good source of magnesium.

      I buy the huge containers of Epsom salt from Costco. Keep two containers and decant the salt into the empty one, fill with water, so that I add solution to the bath, not crystals. My tender bum doesn’t like sitting on salt crystals. Full body soak for 20 to 30 minutes.

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 06:07

      Jane,

      Brown rice tastes like ass, and as I’m sure you’re aware, has a good amount of toxins and antinutrients:

      From Rice in human nutrition:

      Antinutrition factors in the rice grain are concentrated in the bran fraction (embryo and aleurone layer). They include phytin (phytate), trypsin inhibitor, oryzacystatin and haemagglutinin-lectin. All except oryzacystatin have been previously reviewed (Juliano, 1985b).

      All the antinutrition factors are proteins and all except phytin (phytate) are subject to heat denaturation. Phytin is located in 1 – to 3-µm globoids in the aleurone and embryo protein bodies as the potassium magnesium salt. Its phosphate groups can readily complex with cations such as calcium, zinc and iron and with protein. It is heat stable and is responsible for the observed poorer mineral balance of subjects fed brown rice diets in comparison to that of subjects fed milled rice diets (Miyoshi et al., 1987a, 1987b).

      Trypsin inhibitor has also been isolated from rice bran and characterized (Juliano, 1985b). The partially purified inhibitor is stable at acidic and neutral pH and retained more than 50 percent of its activity after 30 minutes of incubation at 90°C at pH 2 and 7. Steaming rice bran for 6 minutes at 100°C inactivates the trypsin inhibitor, but dry heating at 100°C for up to 30 minutes is not as effective. The inhibitor distribution is 85 to 95 percent in the embryo, 5 to 10 percent in germ-free bran and none in milled rice.

      Haemagglutinins (lectins) are globulins that agglutinate mammalian red blood cells and precipitate glycoconjugates or polysaccharides. The toxicity of lectins stems from their ability to bind specific carbohydrate receptor sites on the intestinal mucosal cells and to interfere with the absorption of nutrients across the intestinal wall. Rice-bran lectin binds specifically to 2-acetamido-2-deoxy-Dglucose (Poole, 1989). It is stable for 2 hours at 75°C but sharply loses activity after 30 minutes at 80°C or 2 minutes at 100°C (Ory, Bog-Hansen and Mod, 1981). Rice lectin agglutinates human A, B and O group erythrocytes. It is located in the embryo but has receptors in both rice embryo and endosperm (Miao and Tang, 1986).

      Oryzacystatin is a proteinaceous (globulin) cysteine proteinase inhibitor (cystatin) from rice seed and is probably the first well-defined cystatin superfamily member of plant origin (Kondo, Abe and Arai, 1989). Incubation at pH 7 for 30 minutes at 100°C had no effect on its activity but inhibition decreased IS percent at 110°C and 45 percent at 120°C. Oryzacystatin effectively inhibited cysteine proteinases such as papain, ficin, chymopapain and cathepsin C and had no effect on serine proteinases (trypsin, chymotrypsin and subtilisin) or carboxyl proteinase (pepsin).

      An allergenic protein in rice grain, causing rice-associated atopic dermatitis in Japan, is an a-globulin and shows stable immunoreactivity (60 percent) even on heating for 60 minutes at 100°C (Matsuda et al., 1988). It is present mainly in milled rice rather than in the bran. Hypoallergenic rice grains may be prepared by incubating milled rice in actinase to hydrolyse globulins in the presence of a surfactant at an alkaline pH (Watanabe et al., 1990a) and washing. The color of the processed grain is improved by treatment with 0.5-N hydrochloric acid and washing with water (Watanabe et al., 1990b).

      Brown rice has a lot of negative aspects. White rice is fairly benign in the context of a balanced diet and within the context of fatty and fibrous meals.

      And honestly, nobody here plans on getting their “nutrition” from white rice. We are all well aware that it is a nutritionless food. We all find our minerals elsewhere.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 06:15

      Duckie, maybe that’s why I don’t process the stuff at all. I thought that germinated brown rice would be easier but no. It does taste way better than the regular brown rice. It’s expensive.

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 06:33

      White rice may appear to be protective because white flour is worse. In many countries white flour is ‘fortified’ with iron. Diabetes is linked to iron overload. Some scientists are trying to argue iron fortification is counter productive but no-one is listening.

      Then that would simply implicate iron as a major cause of diabetes, not rice. You’re still ignoring the fact that the countries that consume the most white rice have the lowest incidence of diabetes because it simply goes against your hypothesis.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 06:51

      Duckie, it’s an n=1, but one of my employees who lives on an Indian Hindu style diet (with small amounts of limited species animal meat) has literally free-based roti and rice all of her adult life. She is iron anemic (low hgb and low ferritin). We’ve checked for Thalassemia trait. Negative. We’ve tested folic acid and B12 = high normal. Her HgbA1c is in the pre-diabetic range. I guess it’s not the iron. Iron pills don’t work. They are not absorbed. So unless she eats lots of lamb/goat liver lamb/goat meat, she won’t improve her status. She seems to have trouble absorbing minerals, including zinc.

      What she does have is chronically inadequate dietary protein. Split peas just don’t cut it. This eating plan is entirely suboptimal.

      Unfortunately, regardless of what she learns at work, the traditional marriage and male dominated home means that the husband can ‘not allow’ changes which may improve health status. His hair has all fallen out too. You’d think, eh?

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 07:10

      Gab,

      Yikes!

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 07:37

      Duckie, yikes is right.

      She’s kinda balding on top too. I don’t think it’s ‘male pattern baldness’ in a woman. Ever since, I’ve been paying attention when I’m out and about. I live in the most ethnically diverse ‘riding’ in Canada. What I see is Muslim women don’t have this balding phenomenon. But it’s relatively common with Hindu women. I don’t think the genetics is all that different between the two groups.

      I think also that protein malnutrition causes digestion difficulties. Possibly this is the reason that mineral absorption is poor. They get early menopause due to primary ovarian failure. Early menopause does not auger well for chronic disease like diabetes, heart disease etc. Correlation.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 12:37

      “free-based roti and rice all of her adult life”

      If I were Indian, I’d free-base naan with basmati rice, alongside copious rogan josh and butter chicken. 🙂

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 12:59

      “Brown rice tastes like ass”

      I have a nephew and one of the first complex dots he connected to form a metaphorical sentence was after he smelled something, looked up to his mom and said: “It smells like butt.”

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 13:06

      Aye Richard, there’s the rub: those other dishes you mention are not current with the Hindu pantheon of recipes. Them thars Muslim recipes.

      These people eat maybe 1 ounce of meat when they eat it. Vegetables are merely a garnish. Mostly it’s roti, rice and little bits of greenery (unripe papaya, guar beans, shit, shit, shit and more shit, (sorry).) It’s been a big eye opener for moi. You can save a lot of money this way. You may drop dead of heart attack, stroke, and diabetes before age 50 but you do save a lot of money.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 14:35

      For many years, I had a Pakistani (Wasim) as my single in-house CRM software developer. He has 2 kids still in Pakistan and went there at least once per year and brought them over at least once per year.

      He always told me when I talked of how I love Indian food, “find a Pakistani restaurant.” Now I know, but at the time asked the difference.

      “MEAT!”

      He was a very lean and healthy looking man, young for his years, always (drank no alcohol, either). He could fast like crazy. One time, he was at the office working on the database for well over a day straight when we were closed down for the Xmas Holidays, and was there so long he called on my cell, just to ask if he could maybe have an apple he saw in the refrigerator. 🙂

      I closed my company down almost a year ago, but just prior, I got a call from him. He sounded awful, weak. He’d just come out of a 3-month coma. he was attending a family wedding in LA, tripped and fell down a flight of stairs. Didn’t know if he’d make it and wanted to give me the passwords to get to everything in terms of the front-end code.

      I told him: “Wasim, eat lots of meat.” “I know,” he replied.

      A few months later I began getting calls from companies, as Wasim uses me a a reference when seeking new clients.

      He’s well into his 60s, looks late 40s.

      I’m such a pathetic little pussy sucker for happy endings.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 15:42

      Cripes. Amazing he remembered to look up the passwords, wherever he’d had them stashed.

      Most of the cooks in Indian restaurants are from Bangladesh. Around here the Pakistanis drive taxis.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 20:03

      Oh, no mystery. Very meticulous man. It came out in the software he wrote for us, his art.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 20:08

      ….I should add that in the space from ’02 to maybe ‘o8’ he made better than an half million working from home from me, 90% of the time.

    • Jane Karlsson February 24, 2014 at 02:49

      DuckDodgers
      All the antinutrition factors in rice can be broken down by gut enzymes, so if you find brown rice indigestible it’s because these enzymes aren’t working too well. Some of them need metal cofactors (see ‘Activation of intestinal peptidases by manganese’), and the one that breaks down phytic acid comes from gut bacteria.

      I believe the reason brown rice doesn’t qualify as ‘safe starch’ is because of the phytic acid? Actually phytic acid has been found to improve copper absorption.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3373335
      This could be very important, because getting enough copper nowadays is difficult.

    • DuckDodgers February 24, 2014 at 04:27

      Jane,

      Can you provide evidence that Oryzacystatin is “broken down by gut enzymes”? How about Trypsin inhibitor and haemagglutinin-lectin?

      I’m not sure how you can convince anyone considering the observed poorer mineral balance of subjects fed brown rice diets in comparison to that of subjects fed milled rice diets (Miyoshi et al., 1987a, 1987b).

Trackbacks

  1. MrPotatoStarchHead February 13, 2014 at 07:32

    How much protein was she eating on VLC?

    Reply
  2. AJ February 13, 2014 at 08:27

    Great story.
    Would be helpful to know how much PS she is using?
    Would be helpful to know when she takes it, all at once or spread out through the day?
    I’m happy for her.

    For me as a Type II and taking 4Tbs of PS a day(twice a day) for 2 months, my blood sugars remain high and even higher with Rice & Bean. Fasting glucose remains unchanged unfortunately. Sleep is noticeably better though.

    Wondering if I should take the 4Tbs all at once.
    I do know my gut health is compromised and is a work in progress to heal which may be leading to the minimal results on my blood glucose.

    Thanks for the continuing series on RS Richard.

    AJ

    Reply
    • Richard Nikoley February 13, 2014 at 08:55

      AJ, I believe she said 3 TBS.

      What I would suggest is a slow ramp up, maybe 1/2 C of rice per meal. You might need to “exercise” with light weights before going to 2 C heavyweight in a single meal. You might ask Paul on the PHD site what he thinks.

      Or, it just might be something that doesn’t work for you.

      Another idea is that you do this same thing but maybe first with beans, then with potatoes, then with rice, so you can see which starch works best for you.

    • AJ February 13, 2014 at 09:45

      Thanks for the recommendations.
      Luckily the tinkering process and individual adaption of this is the part I love.

    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:08

      AJ, how much exercise do you do? On days when my glucose does go out of control, a one hour postmeal glucose can be reduced about 30 points just by a 30 minute walk. Two 30 minute walks during a day can make a huge difference.

    • Joyce Barron September 6, 2015 at 19:33

      Have you ever tried an Indian herb named holy basil or tulsi? I learned about it when my husband was having a hard time with the dawn phenomenon and looked into its properties. It has a chemical compound that increases gaba. I have narcolepsy and am familiar with xyrem being used for this purpose. I have tried it for both him and me and it’s helping with fragmentation of sleep and vivid dreams as well

  3. Julie February 13, 2014 at 09:02

    Hope this isn’t off-topic but I’ve just started Chris Kresser’s 30-day ‘Paleo Reset’ diet in which he says that people with a possible autoimmune disease (like me) shouldn’t eat white potatoes. I’ve been taking potato starch for the last month (no effects yet) and wondered if I should switch to another source of RS.

    I live in the UK, which is a further complication – we don’t seem to have plantain flour, tapioca flour and so on easily available.

    Has anyone in the UK (or Europe) found a non-potato RS product?

    Richard and Tim – I expect you’ve already thought of this but in your book it would be great if you could include product info for those of us outside the US (perhaps by crowdsourcing it via your blog).

    Reply
  4. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 09:04

    I got to where I could hardly eat protein on VLC without BG spiking. I tried to stick to 3 oz of any kind of meat at any meal, and ate cheese/dairy. Like i said in my comments, I ended up eating 3 or 4 fat bombs a day and nothing else in a desperate attempt to control BG, so near the beginning of the N=1 experiment I was eating very little.
    I take 4 -6 tbs starch a day over the average. I don’t take the same amount each time, I vary it like Richard suggested. I’ll take 2 tbs with milk, water or kefir and slug it down, or mix a couple of tbs in yogurt and eat it for a treat. I take the second two, or whatever amount, in the evening in a bit of water before bed. Got rid of horrific heart burn doing that. My husband and adult daughter are on the starch now as well. Too soon to say anything about results but they don’t have the health challenges I’ve had.

    I worked my way up to the larger amount of PS over the first month and was seeing small changes in my BG but not enough to really say it was working well. When I read in multiple comments that there’s hardly any response when in ketosis, I decided it was time to start adding carbs. I started with beans, as I discovered quickly potatoes and rice would send BG spiking up. Once I adjusted to eating *properly prepared for RS* beans, I started adding in rice *UB parboiled, prepared for RS*. It took a couple of weeks to adjust. After I stopped spiking over rice, I added potatoes. I figure out what I am going to eat for the whole day, then break up my percentages of protein, carb and fat per PHD amounts, then eat that in two or three meals. I seem to have gravitated towards an 18/6 eating pattern without consciously attempting it. I don’t start getting hungry until 10 or after, so eat my first meal when I get hungry, usually close to noon. I don’t eat after 6 pm as I am not anxious to tempt the heartburn into coming back.

    I am still not touching fruit or sugar. I plan on trying strawberries and in-season fruit this spring, seeing if I can readapt to them the same way I have with starches. I don’t know if it will work but I am willing to try.

    It is not a perfect curve; I still get the odd spike, especially in the morning. But overall, my BG is remaining in “normal” range 95% of the time. I am warm, I am starting to get some lovely fuzz on my forehead where the hair is starting to grow again, I am sleeping all night for the first time in my adult life and I feel REALLY good, physically and mentally. The starch calm high is amazing.

    Reply
    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:13

      For me, so far, the raw potato starch has improved sleep and stool volume. But I feel it has made my blood glucose control worse not better.

      I don’t have enough data yet to make positive statements or quantify. Some of these data points could change as my gut evolves. I’ve backed down my dose to one or two tablespoons each night until I get a better handle on the impact of starch on my blood glucose.

  5. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 09:15

    For those curious, I am female, turned 47 in January. I am tall and fat as a house and starting to move from sedentary to ambulatory now that I feel human again. No regular exercise pattern other than keeping an eye toward MovNat type jumping around and walking the dogs. I have abused my body with the worst kind of yoyo dieting since I was age 6, including a failed 4 year experiment with a lap band that almost killed me by cutting my stomach open. Thank goodness it’s gone. I am amazed I am still alive with all the foolishness I have committed.

    Sorry I am blah blahing about myself so much but I am trying to add any datapoints that are useful in pinning down why this is working.
    Oh yeah, the cons:

    At times, the fartage is unreal. for me it seems to be linked with how much carbs I have consumed. The higher the carbs, the greater the fartage. Dark beer is the WORST for fartage. I love the stuff but I can clear a house with the gas afterward. At some point I am going to have to do something to make adjustments.

    PS is a hunger crusher. I find I am bored with food in a way I’ve never been, even on VLC. I mean BORED.

    Also, other dietary additions that started in January: daily dosing with Vit D drops, weekly dosing of Vit B complex drops, one K2 capsule a day, and Vit E when I can remember it.

    Reply
    • Charles February 13, 2014 at 16:32

      I think the PS fixes the gut biome which fixes satiety signaling. In my case that’s been dramatic. I don’t have too many cravings, and I’ve really learned to ignore them after doing this for 40+ years. It was mostly out of self-defense. I was a fat kid and very carb sensitive. I never wanted to be fat again, and I wanted to have energy and good health. So I trained myself to eat right, consciously. After five months on potato starch, I don’t crave anything much anymore. I enjoy food, but the background of dietary discipline that I’ve built up over four decades no longer seems necessary. It’s a hell of a lot easier to make good choices.

  6. Resurgent February 13, 2014 at 09:25

    “I think it really, once again, calls into question everything about very low carb, even for T2 diabetics, at minimum. Perhaps not applicable to T1s, since they’re not producing insulin at all.”

    Richard – I would wait till a T1 person tries this and reports the results. Our ‘health’ is a condition heavily modulated by our gut biome. We are still scratching the surface.

    Reply
    • Charles February 13, 2014 at 16:33

      T1’s have tried this and have reported results, and they have been able to reduce insulin.

  7. Paul Jaminet February 13, 2014 at 10:37

    Hi V,

    I replied over on PHD. http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2014/02/encore-day-paleocon-perfect-health-retreats/comment-page-1/#comment-389931.

    Reply
  8. Kim February 13, 2014 at 12:08

    I am a T2 diabetic and am currently taking 500 mg ER of Metformin x 4 per day. Since I started eating vlc, probably ketogenic, my fasting blood sugar is under 100 (usually in the high 90s) and when testing before dinner, I have had some readings around 88. I may try the RS protocol and then try to ramp up my carb intake and see what happens. I really want to get off the metformin as it causes unpleasant side effects for me. I have some potato starch at home already. I know that my gut is not working great as any time I eat vegetables or fruit (like the little bit of apple in chicken/apple sausage), it sends me to the bathroom. I do have low thryroid and also am on blood pressure meds. My doctor told me my thyroid wasn’t low because of a low carb diet but because since I am so overweight and have the diabetes, that it’s probably affecting my thyroid right now.

    Reply
    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:16

      One THIRD of all people of European descent have fructose malabsorption. You can confirm it with a hydrogen breath test, and these tend to only be offered through labs of major hospitals or universities with hospitals.

      I wouldn’t assume that a compromised gut accounts for the problems with fructose.

  9. rs711 February 13, 2014 at 12:26

    I’m glad you’re feeling better Michelle, kudos on your continued efforts!

    Did you every measure your urine, breath or blood ketones when trying to VLC?
    What kind of milk were you drinking? Whole? skimmed? pasteurized? UHT? (same Q for the yoghurt)
    When you mention fat bombs – what kind of fat was it? Poly 3 &/or 6? Mono? Sat?
    Did you eat veggies?
    Were you taking those supplements you mentioned while VLCing &/or after adding in some PS? What about when you switched to the recommended PHD ratios of 30/30/40?

    Sorry for all the questions but I’m trying to understand your case more exactly – on the surface it seems to be a curious result.

    All the best!
    Again

    Reply
  10. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 13:01

    I used ketostix to check and see if I was in ketosis. Purple as all get out. Interestingly, I lost absolutely no weight, after the big drop just before the DK episode. I did gain 10 pounds in January, adding carbs. I’ve lost a few of those this month but I am not attempting to diet beyond working on keeping the PHD ratios.

    I drink one teaspoon of whole milk in tea, plus maybe 1/4 cup with the PS. I can’t stand low fat milk. I use heavy whipping cream in coffee, one tsp per cup, 2 cups daily. That uses up almost all the fat I have in a day. Butter is about the only other fat I use. If I eat the PS in yogurt, I eat a scant 1/4 cup of full fat plain greek yogurt.

    I made fat bombs from coconut oil, cream cheese, sometimes unsalted butter, occasionally cocoa powder or 85% dark chocolate. When I was eating fat bombs I ate them exclusively as it seemed like my BG would spike when I ate any food :/ I was eating a small amount of salad and green or nonstarchy veg during the beginning of VLC. I eat veggies now, in the form of small salads, or a side veg, plus the occasional bite of jarred kimchee from the store.

    I started taking the supps approximately the same time I started the PHD, on Jan. 1.

    I hope this helps. I don’t mind questions; it helps me to think carefully about what I’ve one with this N=1. If the data is useful, I am glad.

    Reply
  11. Michelle February 13, 2014 at 13:05

    To adjust a poorly worded comment: the heavy whipping cream uses up all the extra added fat I will have during the day, over the top of butter in cooking, fat in the meat and dairy I eat. The majority of the fat I eat comes from butter for cooking, although I will use coconut oil if I have it *and can afford it:)*

    Reply
  12. Jane Karlsson February 14, 2014 at 07:07

    Richard, I think you need to talk to Paul Jaminet about white rice. He said in 2011 ‘We like white rice, but if evidence showed it to be unhealthy we’d be equally quick to stop eating it.’ This evidence is now available, in a 2012 study from China showing an association between white rice and diabetes.
    http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/21/1/35.pdf

    White rice has had nearly all its magnesium removed. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to diabetes in many human and animal studies.

    Reply
    • SteveRN February 14, 2014 at 11:27

      I don’t think that means it is unhealthy, just that you don’t get any magnesium from it. Lots is foods are missing some nutrients but are still healthy. That’s why you have a variety of foods you should eat, to cover all your bases. Personally, I think mag is so important and so depleted from the soil that I supplement it heavily, Almost next to impossible get enough via food.

    • DuckDodgers February 14, 2014 at 11:35

      Jane,

      That study certainly doesn’t show that rice causes diabetes. All it shows is that rice causes an increase in blood sugar (duh).

      Paul Jaminet already addressed these poorly designed studies here:

      http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/03/red-meat-and-white-rice-oh-my/

      In a country, increase in any carb consumption (i.e. in China, that just happens to be rice) correlates with a greater chance of being diagnosed with diabetes. That doesn’t necessarily mean that rice or carbs cause diabetes. It just means that increasing carb consumption makes the symptoms of diabetes more visible.

      In any case, in that link, Jaminet shows quite convincingly that the countries that tend to eat the most white rice also tend to have the lowest incidence of diabetes.

    • Pone February 20, 2014 at 22:27

      Jane, that is a pretty horrible study. First, they are comparing rice, against more rice, against even more rice. It’s difficult to evaluate rice against other starches when you don’t make any comparison.

      Second, they don’t control for other factors in the diet. The person who ate >400 grams of white rice might also be more likely to down seven sodas and eat huge bowls of fruit and lots of grains. That person is a walking war chest of metabolic syndrome precursors. How do we place any blame on rice there?

      Rice is the key starch used in most long-lived asian geographies. I think Paul has it right.

    • Jane Karlsson February 21, 2014 at 04:48

      Pone, the study does that. Look at Table 3 and you will see that as rice intake goes up, flour intake goes down. In the north they eat wheat and in the south they eat rice. Table 3 also shows that as rice intake goes up, so does vegetable intake.

      If you take the work of this group as a whole, what they seem to have shown is that white flour makes you fat and diabetic, and white rice makes you thin and diabetic. We are often told white rice is OK because the Japanese are thin. Actually they have more diabetes than we do.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19795421

    • DuckDodgers February 21, 2014 at 20:21

      Jane,

      The Japanese study clearly implicates “recent” changes for the growth in Japanese diabetes. Since rice has been around for thousands of years, it’s an unlikely culprit.

      Sounds like you are grasping for straws to demonize rice for some reason — as if one or two studies could really pinpoint rice as being a sole cause for diabetes. Fact of the matter is that your hypothesis doesn’t account for the countries that eat the most white rice and have the lowest incidence of diabetes:

      http://perfecthealthdiet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/rice-v-diabetes-OP.jpg

    • Pone February 21, 2014 at 21:21

      To me the most obvious evidence is that when you take Japanese on their traditional diets and bring them to the West, their disease progression – including diabetes – occurs as they shift from the traditional diet to Western processed food diets and grains.

      To me the research Jane quotes is a very very bad study design. They do not control for many other things, and the fact that people at the high end of rice consumption consume “less grains” doesn’t really address the fact that these people are consuming LOTS of UNSAFE STARCH, in addition to the rice. All bets off once you cross that line and start eating large quantities of processed and unsafe starch. They are loaded with Omega-6 in processed foods, imbalanced against Omega-3, etc, lots of irritation and autoimmune triggers from proteins in grains, etc etc.

      What I do believe is that if you eat processed foods, toxic grains, and get substantially large amounts of caloric intake from carbohydrates (say >40%), then probably additional carb intake will provoke glucose control problems. In that case you are forcing the body to deal with excess glucose intake, and it really doesn’t matter where you get that excess glucose from. Rice is just a placeholder but it could be any kind of starch and if you overeat calories and carbs, you are at extra risk of diabetes.

    • Jane Karlsson February 22, 2014 at 04:20

      DuckDodgers
      Please read the comment I just posted to Pone. White rice has had nearly all its magnesium and most of its manganese removed. The starch cannot be metabolised without these metals. Eating it without them is going to cause diabetes in susceptible people.

      I have biology degrees from Oxford and Cambridge, and I have spent 30 years studying the biomedical literature full time. I was fortunate enough to inherit money so I could do this. No academic institution will fund someone who wants to read the literature.

    • Richard Nikoley February 22, 2014 at 07:44

      Jane:

      Any info on the Mg and Mn content of parboiled vs. plain white rice? Googling around, appears to be higher. I did a post on parboiled rice, not sure if you saw it.

      https://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/parboiled-nutritious-resistant.html

      At any rate, the previous point I made still stands.

      1. Even in the PHD diet, rice is not a staple and it’s to be consumed with protein and veggies.

      2. Paul also has storage organs, so even at 30% carbs total, maybe you’re looking 15-20% from rice.

      3. If you add legumes (garbanzos high in Mn, I see), you get more Mg and Mn, and reduce rice load even further.

      I really don’t understand why you keep beating this drum, as though someone is advocating white rice as a 60% staple or something.

    • gabriella kadar February 22, 2014 at 08:03

      Duckie, it looks like it’s not the rice. More like overeating in general, lots of abdominal fat, and in those countries where diabetes is now skyrocketing, low lean muscle mass.

      The BMI is adjusted for those societies where lean muscle mass is low. In India, a BMI of 25 is considered to be obese. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3307188/#!po=2.50000

      They have skinny legs and arms but marshmallow tummies.

    • DuckDodgers February 22, 2014 at 11:06

      Jane, That’s all very interesting, but I think you’re going to need to do better than that in terms of presenting evidence. I’m sure you can find a few papers that show deficiencies can exacerbate insulin issues, but that still doesn’t explain why the countries that consume the most white rice have the lowest incidence of diabetes. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Indonesia, Cambodia, etc. those countries consume the most white rice but have the lowest incidence of diabetes. If anything, those countries show that white rice consumption is protective of diabetes.

      Now, you can continue to ignore that paradox, or you can address it here.

      And, as Richard pointed out, nobody here is advocating making rice a staple. We all eat a variety of carbs.

    • Pone February 22, 2014 at 16:02

      Wow, Jane, you would be my dream girl being able to spend a lot of time reading science, and then not have the pressure of publication or commercial job. And if you were Taylor Swift, then I could spend another one third of my time writing poetry and song lyrics.

      Ah, the dream. 🙂

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:00

      Yes I saw your post on parboiled rice. As you say, the Mg content is not improved.

      I don’t understand why you keep beating this drum. Brown rice is delicious.

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:03

      I’m doing something wrong here. I wanted to reply to Richard and my post ended up somewhere else.

    • Jane Karlsson February 23, 2014 at 04:58

      DuckDodgers
      White rice may appear to be protective because white flour is worse. In many countries white flour is ‘fortified’ with iron. Diabetes is linked to iron overload. Some scientists are trying to argue iron fortification is counter productive but no-one is listening.

      Gabriella
      Why do you think people eat too much? Guyenet’s group has found brain damage in obese people, in the satiety centre of the hypothalamus. The damage appears to be due to oxidative stress. The most important antioxidant enzyme is MnSOD, a manganese enzyme.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 05:05

      Jane, I bought germinated brown rice a while back because it’s supposed to have GABA. I’m not doing it anymore because it came out my backside looking exactly like it went in the front. Waste of money as far as I can tell. I’m not going to chew every mouthful 50 times. I don’t need to wear down my teeth. When I made an effort to chew it more often, the ‘end product’ was somewhat less ‘ricey’ but still indicated poor digestion of product.

      I get my magnesium from coconut water, Epsom salt baths, and the occasional 200 mg tablet. 1 litre of coconut water = 200+ mg of magnesium. The potassium can’t hurt either. Calories are not really an issue approx. 200 kcal per 1 litre. I don’t eat peanut butter which apparently is a good source of magnesium.

      I buy the huge containers of Epsom salt from Costco. Keep two containers and decant the salt into the empty one, fill with water, so that I add solution to the bath, not crystals. My tender bum doesn’t like sitting on salt crystals. Full body soak for 20 to 30 minutes.

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 06:07

      Jane,

      Brown rice tastes like ass, and as I’m sure you’re aware, has a good amount of toxins and antinutrients:

      From Rice in human nutrition:

      Antinutrition factors in the rice grain are concentrated in the bran fraction (embryo and aleurone layer). They include phytin (phytate), trypsin inhibitor, oryzacystatin and haemagglutinin-lectin. All except oryzacystatin have been previously reviewed (Juliano, 1985b).

      All the antinutrition factors are proteins and all except phytin (phytate) are subject to heat denaturation. Phytin is located in 1 – to 3-µm globoids in the aleurone and embryo protein bodies as the potassium magnesium salt. Its phosphate groups can readily complex with cations such as calcium, zinc and iron and with protein. It is heat stable and is responsible for the observed poorer mineral balance of subjects fed brown rice diets in comparison to that of subjects fed milled rice diets (Miyoshi et al., 1987a, 1987b).

      Trypsin inhibitor has also been isolated from rice bran and characterized (Juliano, 1985b). The partially purified inhibitor is stable at acidic and neutral pH and retained more than 50 percent of its activity after 30 minutes of incubation at 90°C at pH 2 and 7. Steaming rice bran for 6 minutes at 100°C inactivates the trypsin inhibitor, but dry heating at 100°C for up to 30 minutes is not as effective. The inhibitor distribution is 85 to 95 percent in the embryo, 5 to 10 percent in germ-free bran and none in milled rice.

      Haemagglutinins (lectins) are globulins that agglutinate mammalian red blood cells and precipitate glycoconjugates or polysaccharides. The toxicity of lectins stems from their ability to bind specific carbohydrate receptor sites on the intestinal mucosal cells and to interfere with the absorption of nutrients across the intestinal wall. Rice-bran lectin binds specifically to 2-acetamido-2-deoxy-Dglucose (Poole, 1989). It is stable for 2 hours at 75°C but sharply loses activity after 30 minutes at 80°C or 2 minutes at 100°C (Ory, Bog-Hansen and Mod, 1981). Rice lectin agglutinates human A, B and O group erythrocytes. It is located in the embryo but has receptors in both rice embryo and endosperm (Miao and Tang, 1986).

      Oryzacystatin is a proteinaceous (globulin) cysteine proteinase inhibitor (cystatin) from rice seed and is probably the first well-defined cystatin superfamily member of plant origin (Kondo, Abe and Arai, 1989). Incubation at pH 7 for 30 minutes at 100°C had no effect on its activity but inhibition decreased IS percent at 110°C and 45 percent at 120°C. Oryzacystatin effectively inhibited cysteine proteinases such as papain, ficin, chymopapain and cathepsin C and had no effect on serine proteinases (trypsin, chymotrypsin and subtilisin) or carboxyl proteinase (pepsin).

      An allergenic protein in rice grain, causing rice-associated atopic dermatitis in Japan, is an a-globulin and shows stable immunoreactivity (60 percent) even on heating for 60 minutes at 100°C (Matsuda et al., 1988). It is present mainly in milled rice rather than in the bran. Hypoallergenic rice grains may be prepared by incubating milled rice in actinase to hydrolyse globulins in the presence of a surfactant at an alkaline pH (Watanabe et al., 1990a) and washing. The color of the processed grain is improved by treatment with 0.5-N hydrochloric acid and washing with water (Watanabe et al., 1990b).

      Brown rice has a lot of negative aspects. White rice is fairly benign in the context of a balanced diet and within the context of fatty and fibrous meals.

      And honestly, nobody here plans on getting their “nutrition” from white rice. We are all well aware that it is a nutritionless food. We all find our minerals elsewhere.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 06:15

      Duckie, maybe that’s why I don’t process the stuff at all. I thought that germinated brown rice would be easier but no. It does taste way better than the regular brown rice. It’s expensive.

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 06:33

      White rice may appear to be protective because white flour is worse. In many countries white flour is ‘fortified’ with iron. Diabetes is linked to iron overload. Some scientists are trying to argue iron fortification is counter productive but no-one is listening.

      Then that would simply implicate iron as a major cause of diabetes, not rice. You’re still ignoring the fact that the countries that consume the most white rice have the lowest incidence of diabetes because it simply goes against your hypothesis.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 06:51

      Duckie, it’s an n=1, but one of my employees who lives on an Indian Hindu style diet (with small amounts of limited species animal meat) has literally free-based roti and rice all of her adult life. She is iron anemic (low hgb and low ferritin). We’ve checked for Thalassemia trait. Negative. We’ve tested folic acid and B12 = high normal. Her HgbA1c is in the pre-diabetic range. I guess it’s not the iron. Iron pills don’t work. They are not absorbed. So unless she eats lots of lamb/goat liver lamb/goat meat, she won’t improve her status. She seems to have trouble absorbing minerals, including zinc.

      What she does have is chronically inadequate dietary protein. Split peas just don’t cut it. This eating plan is entirely suboptimal.

      Unfortunately, regardless of what she learns at work, the traditional marriage and male dominated home means that the husband can ‘not allow’ changes which may improve health status. His hair has all fallen out too. You’d think, eh?

    • DuckDodgers February 23, 2014 at 07:10

      Gab,

      Yikes!

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 07:37

      Duckie, yikes is right.

      She’s kinda balding on top too. I don’t think it’s ‘male pattern baldness’ in a woman. Ever since, I’ve been paying attention when I’m out and about. I live in the most ethnically diverse ‘riding’ in Canada. What I see is Muslim women don’t have this balding phenomenon. But it’s relatively common with Hindu women. I don’t think the genetics is all that different between the two groups.

      I think also that protein malnutrition causes digestion difficulties. Possibly this is the reason that mineral absorption is poor. They get early menopause due to primary ovarian failure. Early menopause does not auger well for chronic disease like diabetes, heart disease etc. Correlation.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 12:37

      “free-based roti and rice all of her adult life”

      If I were Indian, I’d free-base naan with basmati rice, alongside copious rogan josh and butter chicken. 🙂

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 12:59

      “Brown rice tastes like ass”

      I have a nephew and one of the first complex dots he connected to form a metaphorical sentence was after he smelled something, looked up to his mom and said: “It smells like butt.”

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 13:06

      Aye Richard, there’s the rub: those other dishes you mention are not current with the Hindu pantheon of recipes. Them thars Muslim recipes.

      These people eat maybe 1 ounce of meat when they eat it. Vegetables are merely a garnish. Mostly it’s roti, rice and little bits of greenery (unripe papaya, guar beans, shit, shit, shit and more shit, (sorry).) It’s been a big eye opener for moi. You can save a lot of money this way. You may drop dead of heart attack, stroke, and diabetes before age 50 but you do save a lot of money.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 14:35

      For many years, I had a Pakistani (Wasim) as my single in-house CRM software developer. He has 2 kids still in Pakistan and went there at least once per year and brought them over at least once per year.

      He always told me when I talked of how I love Indian food, “find a Pakistani restaurant.” Now I know, but at the time asked the difference.

      “MEAT!”

      He was a very lean and healthy looking man, young for his years, always (drank no alcohol, either). He could fast like crazy. One time, he was at the office working on the database for well over a day straight when we were closed down for the Xmas Holidays, and was there so long he called on my cell, just to ask if he could maybe have an apple he saw in the refrigerator. 🙂

      I closed my company down almost a year ago, but just prior, I got a call from him. He sounded awful, weak. He’d just come out of a 3-month coma. he was attending a family wedding in LA, tripped and fell down a flight of stairs. Didn’t know if he’d make it and wanted to give me the passwords to get to everything in terms of the front-end code.

      I told him: “Wasim, eat lots of meat.” “I know,” he replied.

      A few months later I began getting calls from companies, as Wasim uses me a a reference when seeking new clients.

      He’s well into his 60s, looks late 40s.

      I’m such a pathetic little pussy sucker for happy endings.

    • gabriella kadar February 23, 2014 at 15:42

      Cripes. Amazing he remembered to look up the passwords, wherever he’d had them stashed.

      Most of the cooks in Indian restaurants are from Bangladesh. Around here the Pakistanis drive taxis.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 20:03

      Oh, no mystery. Very meticulous man. It came out in the software he wrote for us, his art.

    • Richard Nikoley February 23, 2014 at 20:08

      ….I should add that in the space from ’02 to maybe ‘o8’ he made better than an half million working from home from me, 90% of the time.

    • Jane Karlsson February 24, 2014 at 02:49

      DuckDodgers
      All the antinutrition factors in rice can be broken down by gut enzymes, so if you find brown rice indigestible it’s because these enzymes aren’t working too well. Some of them need metal cofactors (see ‘Activation of intestinal peptidases by manganese’), and the one that breaks down phytic acid comes from gut bacteria.

      I believe the reason brown rice doesn’t qualify as ‘safe starch’ is because of the phytic acid? Actually phytic acid has been found to improve copper absorption.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3373335
      This could be very important, because getting enough copper nowadays is difficult.

    • DuckDodgers February 24, 2014 at 04:27

      Jane,

      Can you provide evidence that Oryzacystatin is “broken down by gut enzymes”? How about Trypsin inhibitor and haemagglutinin-lectin?

      I’m not sure how you can convince anyone considering the observed poorer mineral balance of subjects fed brown rice diets in comparison to that of subjects fed milled rice diets (Miyoshi et al., 1987a, 1987b).

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I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2020, has 5,000 posts and 120,000 comments from readers. I blog what I wish...from lifestyle to philosophy, politics, social antagonism, adventure travel, nomad living, location and time independent—"while you sleep"— income, and food. I intended to travel the world "homeless" but the Covid-19 panic-demic squashed that. I've become an American expat living in rural Thailand where I've built a home. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. [Read more...]

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