scratch-mark

You Heard It Here First Update

The number of posts here are over 90, now.

The body of research is is 30+ years old, encompasing thousands of studies and I and my book collaborators—the amazing Tim, who just did an update with Angelo, and Dr. BG, “Grace” (link removed), who just recorded with Dave Asprey (Tim & I are scheduled to go on Dave’s show jointly on May 2)—have been uncovering it, writing about it—and not only here, but in a book (RS is a mere part of it) that now busts at 450 pages, into the thousands of references, and three appendices. Accordingly, we are now facing a luxurious problem of too much.

Resistant starch: a promising dietary agent for the prevention/treatment of inflammatory bowel disease and bowel cancer.

Abstract

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Resistant starch represents a diverse range of indigestible starch-based dietary carbohydrates. Resistant starch has been investigated in the past for its effects on bowel health (pH, epithelial thickness, and apoptosis of colorectal cancer cells); reduction in postprandial glycemia; increased insulin sensitivity; and effects on the gut microbiome. This review highlights advances as resistant starch gains clinical relevance as a potential treatment/preventive tool for diseases such as colorectal cancer (CRC) and diabetes.

RECENT FINDINGS: Recent articles have evaluated the comparative physiological effects of different types of resistant starch and investigated the effects of resistant starch on blood lipids, body weight, and defining resistant starch-induced changes to the micriobiome that may be important in health and disease. The most novel and relevant recent data describe a role for resistant starch in ameliorating inflammation; the use of resistant starch for optimal bowel health and prevention of CRC; and, further, that the systemic effects of resistant starch may be important for the treatment of other forms of cancer, such as breast cancer.

SUMMARY: This review describes advances in resistant starch research highlighting the gastrointestinal effects that are now being linked to systemic, whole body effects with clinical relevance. These effects have important implications for overall health and the prevention or amelioration of various chronic diseases. [emphasis added]

Remember how all the paleos and LCers dismissed it out of hand, 99%, back in about 2011 when it seemed to hit the “news” big time?

Screen Shot 2014 03 23 at 11 52 46 AM
Resistant Starch – Looks Like We Have LOTS of Work to Do

As you can see, I’m no match for the MSM, but it’ll be interesting to see how that chart looks in a year or two, and I suspect you suspect how it’ll look.

Richard Nikoley

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2021, contains 5,000 posts. I blog what I wish...from health, diet, and food to travel and lifestyle; to politics, social antagonism, expat-living location and time independent—while you sleep—income. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. Read More

112 Comments

  1. Mick Hamblen on March 23, 2014 at 17:30

    Gut microbes and Crohn’s disease.

  2. Tim Maitski on March 24, 2014 at 05:21

    Richard, Prescript Assist seems to have cured my Athlete’s Foot and has improved my sleep and dreams.

    I’ve been experimenting with resistant starch starting with the post about the guy who ate 20 potatoes/day. Was doing the potato starch (50g/day) for about 9 months. Started using Primal Defense about a month ago. I really didn’t see much difference other than my stools being bigger and I was more regular. But I’ve been living a pretty healthy lifestyle for the past two years so I really didn’t expect any special effects that I would really notice.

    I got a bottle of Prescript Assist last Monday and added it to my regular routine thinking that I might as well test everything out just in case.

    I have had a chronic case of Athlete’s Foot for the past few years. Sometimes the itch is unbearable. My wife and kids make fun of me when I try to get some relief with anti-fungal sprays and when I try to wash my feet before coming to bed just so I can fall asleep before it gets too bad. Over the weekend it was pretty bad.

    On Monday I started with Prescript Assist and on Wednesday I swear my Athlete’s Foot was gone. It’s been a week now and no signs of it. I also started sleeping better with many more dreams. I know many people have reported that but I just kind of figured they were making things up. It’s funny how it’s not real until you experience it yourself.

    I tried to find some research that might have been done on Athlete’s Foot and probiotics. I stumbled upon a guy who was hospitalized for Athletes Foot and found that probiotics cured it. It inspired him to come up with his own formulation of probiotic called Prodermix. Here’s an interview with him.

    I don’t know if he is still selling his product because his website, prodermix.com doesn’t seem to be working. But he had been selling it with the main claim being that it cures Athlete’s Foot.

    The other thing I wanted to mention that got me noticable results was Green Pasture’s Butter Oil/Cod Liver Oil gel. I started that last Monday also and on Thursday while flossing I was getting a few hardish flakes coming off my bottom front teeth. I was able to crush it with my fingers. I assume it was built up tartar or something that I’ve always had problems with on the inside of my bottom front teeth. My teeth feel really smooth now. I think I remember you mentioning that you also use the product and have had good results.

    These are three things that have improved over the past week due to information on your blog. The biggest value you provide are all of your commenters who share their experiences. So I felt compelled to share my small improvements. Now I have to go on and experiment with other resistant starches and other probiotics. I’m really intrigued now.

    • Richard Nikoley on March 24, 2014 at 07:49

      Great testimonial, Tim. Glad for some improvements for you.



    • Janet on March 24, 2014 at 10:05

      Good !!! Been on PS for about 2 months. Began the probiotics (including Prescp assist) for a couple of weeks. My eczema is disappearing fairly quickly. It is still cold and nasty, plus dry in my neck of the woods, so it almost always hangs around until summer, so I am attributing the receding and healing patches to the use of pre and probiotics. Nothing else ever worked but summer Whatever, I am much more comfortable.



    • Rob Turner on March 24, 2014 at 15:51

      I can’t be sure it’s the potato starch but my teeth seem much cleaner at the end of the day now than they used to before I was taking potato starch. I haven’t really made any other drastic changes that I could think would make any difference.



  3. gabriella kadar on March 23, 2014 at 16:35

    Charles…..yoohooo~ don’t know anymore where to post this.

    I’ve been giving Prescript Assist to the cats for the past week. Every day since Monday (so 7 days) of PA which is what I was most interested in. The Primal Defense I’ve given them a couple of times only because I’m not convinced this is really what’s needed here and won’t bother anymore.

    The 12 year old male cat has had these ‘go crazy twitchy itchy run around like a lunatic, chew the base of his tail but not denude it’ issues for years. He’s been entirely calm all week. I haven’t seen him snacking on potting soil before breakfast either. I’ll keep watching though. So far, so good. All the cats are getting PA once per day but he’s getting a lot more of it than the rest of them. He has not vomited this week either. He doesn’t vomit regularly but he is the only cat out of six who does. He hasn’t puked up a hairball this week either. Will update in another week. Seems all the cats have increased appetites though.

  4. Richard Nikoley on March 23, 2014 at 17:14

    Yea, I know it’s different for some, and depending on what browser, or what proxy server I hit, the tag link is either one or in about the top six.

    Anyway, best not to make an issue, so I’m going to concede, and i just stripped the hubris. Onward.

  5. Q on March 23, 2014 at 19:46

    I am becoming convinced that RS/probiotics might be a significant recovery tool for alcoholics. I hope this can be explored, because there is a complete lack of help for physiological addiction. Someone in a previous thread made a comment about how alcohol can fuel the brain and how a healthy gut environment may similarly act. I’m sure most alcoholics have ravaged gut situations.

    On the cautionary side, I am finding that RS is re-attenuating my brain to alcohol. For a very long time now, alcohol had become a “the drugs ain’t working anymore” scenario. But the old euphoria is suddenly reappearing. Interesting. Dangerous. Hopeful. I will continue to experiment. I would be very interested to hear any other addicts’ experience.

    • EF on March 24, 2014 at 06:55

      I’m a pretty heavy drinker. All gin/rye and wine. Usually 2 or 3 drinks 2 or 3 times a week.
      I’m on day 6 of a 30 day abstinence. I’m doing PS and probiotics for all the wonderful benefits (and I’ve seen some including blood sugar control).
      But look at this chart:
      Pretty convincing, huh?



    • marie on March 23, 2014 at 22:40

      Q,
      I’m convinced RS has some alcohol-modulating effect, at least with a combination of both long-term RS use and immediate. I have not had a chance to experiment much with this….yet 😉

      Anyway, here’s input from the other end of the spectrum, it’s different to yours but shows a strong effect : infrequent drinker here, maybe on special occasions, if that. Just no taste for it. On social occasions, I typically fake it with ginger ale.
      So predictably, if I have a glass of wine or a single shot of anything, I’m warm and relaxed with slightly weak knees. At two glasses, I’m happy-go-lucky drunk. Never gone above two since college days.
      (yes, I’ve heard All the “cheap date” jokes, but anyone is welcome to surprise me)

      It was St.Paddy’s recently and friends challenged me to a game of darts, but with a shot of whisky at every game. There were 6 of us. They really wanted someone to beat me at darts.
      I had not had anything to eat since lunch and it was 7-ish pm.
      I did have 4Tbsp potato starch in water before joining them, to tide me over to a late dinner afterwards.

      Well, 5 shots later, I was still clear headed, if rather ‘happy’ – and I’d won again, with a typical score for me.
      A pretty good ‘objective’ metric of being steady all over and coordinated.

      This is phenomenal alcohol tolerance for anyone not habituated to alcohol and even for most who are.

      So of course (in the interests of science you understand !) I tried it again 3 days later, with vodka this time.
      Got my husband to try it too, he’s more of a moderate drinker, weekends and social occasions.
      Similar effect.

      One of these days, I’ll bring home a breathalyzer from the lab next to mine and see if there’s a measurable difference at timed intervals.
      Even so, I’d be stomped as to why that should be.
      Have you or has anyone come across any study showing an alcohol metabolism effect related to the gut biome or to prebiotics, mediated by SCFAs for example?



    • Q on March 23, 2014 at 23:32

      Marie, I haven’t been able to find any research or forum discussions online. Right now, I can only speak for myself. But the effect is pronounced and curious enough in my 30+ years of very entrenched addiction, that I feel I must speak up.



    • marie on March 24, 2014 at 00:02

      It’s very curious and worthwhile. Something is happening. I can’t see how the two experiences relate, other than the fact they are both changes in the reactions to alcohol. I’m shooting in the dark with SCFA.
      I do know others have noticed alcohol-related effects. Perhaps people will pool them here and we’ll get some ideas.



    • Alie on March 24, 2014 at 04:49

      I’ve had similar reactions and did the same sort of “test” as Marie did the first time I noticed it. I enjoy wine and beer but am definitely a lightweight. Since adding RS into my diet, I have a pronounced increase in tolerance to alcohol but a lessening of desire for it. Personally, I have also been noticing some positive emotional/mental health changes so I was wondering if the two were somehow related. Its like RS is my own internal therapist.



    • Mo on March 24, 2014 at 06:48

      My interest in alcohol has been a glass or two of wine with dinner a few times a week. Since beginning the RS/probiotic regimen I can barely finish one glass. Just no desire for more. Same with sweets – no real interest.

      I’ve always been someone who needs my sleep. I feel hung-over the day after a late night, even with little to no alcohol. I had a late night on Saturday, the first since beginning the RS/probiotics. I woke up at 6 am the next morning and had a full, physically active day with plenty of energy. Amazing for me.



    • Gina on March 24, 2014 at 08:46

      I’ve read that alcohol cravings can be caused by hypoglycemia and that most alcoholics have wild blood sugar swings, so presumably that would improve with adding RS. I’m currently on the wagon to try to reset my tolerance (I was a 1.5-2 bottle of red wine a night gal), so I will try to remember to keep you posted. I will say that I’m not having any cravings like I normally would; in fact, it’s been pretty effortless.

      I hadn’t noticed any significant benefits to taking a probiotic + RS (I’m a vegan and was already eating a crap ton of reheated ‘taters, beans, rice and pasta), but your comment makes me think that the ease of abstaining from alcohol lately may be a very significant benefit, if RS is the cause.



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 13:33

      Interesting. I know that Kudzu starch has been investigated for its alcohol lowering effects.



    • Padraic on March 25, 2014 at 08:39

      I found at first, alcohol while on resistant starch caused nasty flu like symptoms. I abstained for a few weeks, which was easy, as desire had immediately dropped with RS, and upon cautiously reintroducing alcohol, I found the same as a lot of others, increased tolerance with fewer negatives. I haven’t pushed it passed the “few drinks” level (again, decreased desire), but my body (and gut bugs) seem to be handling everything better than ever.



    • Joe Blowe on March 25, 2014 at 11:04

      EF, 2 or 3 drinks two or three times a week is not what I’d consider drinking “heavily.”

      Now, Gina on the other hand… I wanna party with her!



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 11:09

      Ha, Joe Blowe, I raised an eyebrow too.

      I think he meant to say, ‘2 or 3 drinks every two to three hours.’



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 11:11

      ….and he can type? Admirable.



    • Gina on March 25, 2014 at 11:14

      I got drunk last night (for science!). The old euphoria, as you put it, is not back, even after a month of abstaining, but it was interesting. I was sort of forcing the issue and intentionally drinking too much. I think I could have stopped any time and not craved more, which is unusual for me. It wasn’t enjoyable at all, come to think of it. Tolerance was about the same.



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 11:18

      EF, that’s nice. But how much were they boozing before the test? That information is not provided. If they were like Gina, then I can definitely see how many things would improve.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 11:19

      Gina, “for science” would have included posting a comment while at your best worst. 🙂

      Alright, everyone engaging in this experiment, you have to post a comment at the point where you stand up and stumble a little bit, and/or, bump into either side of the hallway as you head to unload fluid to make room for more.



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 11:20

      EF, what’s not provided is information on how much these people were drinking before the abstinence period. If it’s like Gina, then totally believable. If it’s 2 glasses of wine with supper, then I don’t think there would be such a difference.



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 12:00

      Richard, unfortunately that doesn’t take very much at all. The older I get the lower my tolerance. I only have a drink after I know there’s nothing else to get done.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 12:39

      Funny thing with me, and RS only magnifies the effect. Drink on a mostly empty stomach: stimulant. I mean, like hardcore, and I’ll be up until 3-4 am. With food, especially a big meal: total depressant and I’ll hit the sac at 8pm.



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 13:37

      Richard, what’s the point of adding alcohol to a full stomach? That’s just more calories. Feh.

      yours truly,

      Mellow Jello



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 15:15

      Wow, this pooling is terrific. I’m noticing a couple of groupings up to now (maybe, kinda, I think….) :
      _ For the non-habituated and social drinkers : increased tolerance with decreased interest.
      _ For the heavily habituated : either returned euphoria/’sensitization’ or decreased interest, or both
      Any distinctions may vanish of course as we continue pooling info.
      Does any one notice anything else?

      Empty stomach vs Not : there’s two ’empty stomach’ data points (mine and Richard’s) – did I miss one/any one else?

      Also, could I ask any of the ‘science testers’ above (yoo hoo Alie, Gina !)) to try with 2 or 4 Tbsp PS in water (whatever you’re comfortable with) half an hour to an hour before drinking alcohol? 😀

      Oh and Richard, since apparently I now need more than 5 shots to get me to ‘stumble a little bit’, fuggedaboutit!
      O.k., how about this : some day, will post a comment at the point when I can no longer figure out my game using a checkout chart? (lack o’math counts as stumbling, n’est pas?)



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 15:39

      “For the heavily habituated : either returned euphoria/’sensitization’ or decreased interest, or both”

      You rang?

      Hmm, It’s weird. The most pronounced effect is that the mere thought of alcohol makes me gag involuntarily. Of course, takes but one drink to fix that. 🙂



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 16:14


    • LeonRover on March 25, 2014 at 21:18

      Does the thought of RUMPS make you gag ?

      James Bond prefers his RUMPS shaken.

      I like mine stirred – stirring RUMPS thrice a day is not habituation – some still do it in their 80’s.

      http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/2014/03/24/resistant-starch/

      Sláinte :)) :))



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 21:48

      Oh, so you want to piss me off, Leon?

      I have been fighting a losing battle for ages against that Bond shit, though I like just about everything else, pussy galore.

      Liquor cocktails are always stirred, so as to be silky. A perfect Manhattan is the prime example (perfect, because the sweet vermouth is cut by half with dry).

      But, any frilly ladies cocktail, such as a Cosmopolitan is of course shaken to make millions of little fun bubbles of delight. It’s sweet, has fruit juice in it, and to shake it is to make it fun.

      Men. Women. Stirred. Shaken. There’s a difference.



    • Gina on March 25, 2014 at 21:50

      Next time I imbibe I will take 4 tbsp of potato starch in water a half hour prior and report back when I bump into a wall or feel the urge to call my ex-boyfriend, whichever comes first. God, I miss Mail Goggles.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 23:44

      favorite line from “Sideways.”

      “Did you just drink and dial?”



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 23:50

      Shit, Gina, just how cool are you?

      I had to Google Male Goggles.

      No shit?

      You know, it’s reminiscent of Heinlein’s deal with voting. No arbitrary restrictions. You simply have to solve a math problem to gain entry to the voting booth.



    • marie on March 26, 2014 at 00:04

      Gina, perfect! I’d love to see if the pre-drink makes a broader difference.

      Meanwhile, they giveth the drunk email savior, and they taketh away. Google is god, finally : “I form light and create darkness, make peace and create evil, I Yahweh do all these things” (45:7) Isaiah.



    • Gina on March 26, 2014 at 07:58

      Ha ha, I’m cooler than a fan. 😉

      Yeah, Mail Goggles was great. You can get similar apps for iOS and Android with fun names like “Drunk Lock.”



    • Q on March 27, 2014 at 16:49

      With all due respect, and great appreciation for humor, addiction is a life destroying affliction for a lot people and I will continue to report my RS experiences here for those people.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 27, 2014 at 18:40

      Q

      That’s pretty projecting defensive. I don’t know anything about Gina beyond what she’s revealed. Doubt you know more.

      Moreover, I respect the right of any drinker, stoner, shooter or snorter to do it with pride and lift a very high middle finger to the entire world.

      It’s her life. She lives it her way.



    • Q on March 27, 2014 at 18:50

      Richard, and Gina, please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not talking to Gina, or anyone else in particular. It’s just that I am going out on a very vulnerable limb here to talk openly about an affliction that has pretty much destroyed my life. I do not do this lightly. And though I totally appreciate that this can be fodder for humor, and I am also game for making light of it my own self, I am here spilling my guts to try to help others who might be seeking relief. No offense intended.



    • Q on March 27, 2014 at 19:13

      To be clear, I am not a drinker, heavy drinker, binge drinker or etc. I am a very long term, end stage, physiological ADDICT. Again, no offense intended.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 27, 2014 at 20:06

      Q

      OK. Email me. Please. Cereal.



  6. Robbie on March 24, 2014 at 05:15

    I started taking PS four days ago, and last nite after 1 glass of wine had the same experience as Q, the reappearance of that old euphoria. Didn’t even put two and two together till I read this!

  7. Mike Ede on March 24, 2014 at 09:19

    More evidence that gut bugs are going mainstream in the UK.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26626507

    Gut bacteria turn dark chocolate ‘healthy’

    • Mike Ede on March 24, 2014 at 09:26

      A different article on same subject:

      http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-secret-to-dark-chocolates-health-benefits-20140318,0,6762224.story

      The important bit : ” Finley said these were among the compounds that were poorly digested, yet acted upon by gut microbes. The other substance that was fermented was dietary fiber, which makes up about 30% of cocoa powder.

      He said that the amount of cocoa powder that appeared to produce beneficial effects was about two tablespoons a day”



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 10:16

      The article says: “It has been unclear exactly why this happens, but researchers had focused on the effects of anti-oxidant flavanols, such as catechin and epicatechin.”

      But, actually it has already been discovered as to why this happens. Flavanols are polyphenols and polyphenols have glycans. Most prebiotics are glycans such as polysaccharides or oligosaccharides (as we discussed in the Disrupting Paleo series). It’s also clearly explained in the abstract of this study:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20955691

      …which says,

      Metabolism of polyphenols by microbiota involves the cleavage of glycosidic linkages. Glycans, which are the product of glycosidic cleavage, are necessary for survival of the intestinal microbiota as a nutrient foundation. There are two pivotal points: (i) Firmicutes possess a disproportionately smaller number of glycan-degrading enzymes than Bacteroidetes, (ii) Firmicutes are more repressed than the Bacteroidetes by phenolic compounds’ antimicrobial properties. The Bacteroidetes community prevails following dietary polyphenol intake and its fermentation to phenolic compounds, due to having more glycan-degrading enzymes, so this may thus be a mechanism by which dietary polyphenols exert their weight lowering effect.

      So, the gut bugs cleave the glycans and the glycans become prebiotics (and other metabolites).

      What this means is that any polyphenol-rich food technically contains prebiotics. It’s not so surprising to read these kinds of articles once you understand that!



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 10:29

      What this also means is that things like raw mushrooms, vinegar, wine, blueberries, lemons, apple cider, tea leaves all contain prebiotic glycans. But, the prebiotic glycans in these probably aren’t that different from the oligosaccharides and polysaccharides that we get from other sources. However, the key point here is that the glycan metabolites aren’t just prebiotics. They also serve other functions in the body, so much of the benefit from consuming mushrooms or blueberries comes from few glycans that do other things (like glycosaminoglycan/GAGs), which get assimilated by the body. It probably wouldn’t be very cost effective to get your prebiotic oligosaccharides and polysaccharides from many of these interesting sources.

      The study of glycans is called glycobiology and it’s a potentially enormous emerging field of science. The problem is that there are millions of glycans out there, and we know very little about them.



    • marie on March 24, 2014 at 11:51

      DuckDodgers, awesome timely coincidence re. “raw mushrooms, vinegar, …, apple cider” prebiotics conversion : I sent last night to Richard a description of a dish my grandma called “essence de la vie” (essence of life) that uses these (well, apple cider vinegar and raw mushrooms) with black eyed peas, onions, garlic, olive oil etc. I thought the rs and inulin in it were the ” essence” key, but now I see it’s even better. Very happy gut bugs.



    • tatertot on March 24, 2014 at 12:42

      Duck – I know you probably told me this, but in the interest of making a permanent record here on FTA, tell me about these glycans and the thoughts behind AGEs (advanced glycation endpoints). We all know not to eat burnt meat due to AGEs, do you suppose all glycans end up being bad when cooked improperly?

      I like your connections, though. So many glycans out there that are prebiotic in nature, not just ‘fermentable’ but actually prebiotic in that they lower pH, raise bifido, etc…



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 12:57

      Marie,

      Sounds delicious! What I don’t quite understand is how cooking falls into this. Normally when an animal snacks on a glycan-rich food, the bond between the glycan and the fat or protein is degraded and the host gets the protein/fat while the gut bugs metabolize the glycan — and sometimes the glycan gets assimilated into the body as we see with glycosaminoglycan/GAGs. There’s a symbiotic metabolization going on here.

      But cooking tends to degrade many of these wonderful compounds to some degree (I actually don’t know what that degree is). Some certainly some of these compounds survive, but I get the feeling that we have a special challenge in figuring this out since we are the only species that cook our foods. For instance, cook a glycan too much and you have AGEs.

      I’m not a “raw foodist” (I love “cooking”) but I can’t help but wonder if cooking everything alters the playing field a bit in the wrong direction.

      Suzana Herculano-Houzel argues that cooking (besides neutralizing toxins and killing pathogens) supports higher neurons in brains by freeing up more calories. I assume it does this by denaturing all these wonderful indigestible compounds into more simple sugars and digestible calories.

      Grace showed me the following study which explains that the microbiota are basically metabolizing and cleaving many, many different compounds for us and making them available in our guts.

      Nutrition-derived bioactive metabolites produced by gut microbiota and their potential impact on human health

      It’s also worth pointing out Jo Robinson’s book (Eating on the Wild Side) where she explains that the freshness of food causes a loss of beneficial compounds. The moment you pull a plant out of the ground or kill an animal, antioxidants (some being polyphenols) are getting used up postmortem. Sometimes it’s the plant that’s using them up as they slowly expire. But, certainly in the case of the postmortem animal, the bacteria are degrading carbohydrates as well as some of the prebiotic glycans and turning them into lactic acid (which in turn tenderizes the meat).

      So, when you think about all this, most of the foods we get in the supermarket and cook are missing a good amount of these compounds. 🙁

      I guess the main reason why this research is exciting for the scientists who are performing them is because they are trying to find cheap/alternative sources of prebiotics to sell us.



    • Mike Ede on March 24, 2014 at 13:02

      Lovely, thank you for that, I guess at the moment I have a load of confirmation bias going on. Seeing everything through the lens of the gut biome and the feeding of the same. Loving the extra knowledge you guys share.

      Have you come across any articles on vinegar and the effect on the gut biome or is it “just” the effect of glycans? Presumably the direct acidifying effect would be useful in helping control “bad bugs” but can the extra acid get past the stomach, does anything get as far as the large intestine or is acidity there just down to fermentation products?



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 13:04

      tatertot, I don’t know. I wish I knew more about AGEs.

      Here’s what Jaminet said about them:

      Paul Jamint said in 2011:

      Definitely gentle cooking to avoid browning is better. We had one batch that came out perfect, another that got a bit overcooked. Unfortunately that one had the picture.

      However, the toxins that are produced in Maillard browning (advanced glycation endproducts) are mostly destroyed in digestion. So the biggest danger comes from AGEs created in the body, not AGEs created in cooking.

      One reason we oven-cooked these instead of frying them is that oven-cooking probably generates fewer toxins.

      So, it’s a good point, and one definitely wants to minimize browning damage, but I don’t think a little bit of browning during cooking is a big deal.

      I don’t really quite understand how AGEs are formed in the body. Given that AGEs are related to aging and the increased intake of glycans (as well as smearing glycans on your skin) seems to make people look younger, I’m guessing gut bugs (or a lack thereof) have something to do with it 🙂



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 13:10

      Mike,

      Excellent questions. I think the acid effect is probably a major part of the equation. That’s probably another reason why whole foods are better than their isolates. And that would be true of any fermented food actually.

      The effects of polyphenols in vinegar (and other foods) are discussed in some more detail in the polyphenol study I mentioned above. You can read it for free. I’m only partly through it, so you may find more answers if you finish reading it before I do 🙂



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 13:49

      Keep in mind that there’s a big difference between glycosylation and glycation. Glycosylation is the enzymatic attachment of glycans to proteins, fats, etc. We need glycosylation to form a lot of the compounds in our bodies. And, of course, Jaminet has been arguing for years that safe starches promote a safe glycosylation to take place (i.e. forming important glycans in the body).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycosylation

      Glycation on the other hand is a non-enzymatic (spontaneous) attachment of sugars molecules to proteins or lipid molecules. AGEs are referring to lots of bad glycation. You can have exogenous glycation and endogenous glycation.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycation

      It’s easy to confuse the two, but they are different.



    • marie on March 24, 2014 at 16:14

      Duck, I too may have confirmation bias like Mike Ede, but dang it, you’ll see it’s well provoked when you look at the actual food composition and details that I’m only now noticing of what’s raw and what’s cooked/cooled and… Here’s that email, in case anyone wants to make this:

      …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
      Alors, mémé called this black-eyed pea dish “Essence de la vie”.

      She was partly from Alsace and partly from Milan, and of course married a Greek, so I don’t know where that name came from or if it’s just a family tradition, but it makes a lot of Sense (ah, the Rover would like that wordplay! 🙂 )

      Tiens :
      __black-eyed peas, soaked 2-4 hours (this bean variety doesn’t need much), then boiled, rinsed and strained. I do 2-4 lbs at a time.
      __balsamic vinegar and/or apple-cider vinegar (yes, they actually go well together if you wish)
      __extra virgin olive oil (Greek only, of course!. ‘Kalamata sweet’ if you can)
      __raw mushrooms
      __raw or slightly sauteed onions (‘wilted’), just enough to “tuer lucifer” ie. extinguish the “match-strike” teary-eyed smell – we’d say to “take the edge off” (this also reduces stomach gas for those susceptible)
      __marinated garlic
      __tomatini
      __ham (homemade, just sitting in celery juice and salt)
      __sea salt, oregano and/or black pepper to taste

      Can have warm or cold. Works as a fantastic side-dish to that ‘sweet and tangy’ sauteed liver you’ve seen before too (use the same vinegar to ‘blend’ flavors).
      Travels well.

      We make peas and ‘wilted’ onions on the weekend and keep in the fridge, then add the other stuff at each sitting for a few days, doing this maybe every other week or at least once a month. A diet “Staple” 🙂

      So especially when cold and eaten through such weeks, it occurred to me that it gives some decent RS as well, together with the obvious inulin.

      This makes most of the happy-making gut bugs have a party, yes? 🙂

      Essence de la vie, évidemment!
      ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

      And I can add now glycan metabolites. Very happy guts indeed, all in addition to the the proteins and safe starches aspect too.

      Quantities of ingredients (significant amounts of onion and garlic, not just as flavorings):
      One dish/serving is normally 1-1.5 lbs of black-eyed peas (prep as described) : 3-4 medium raw portabella mushrooms : 5-6 garlic cloves (marinated) : 1 medium onion (prep as described) : 4-5 tomatini : 4oz ham (as described) : 3 Tbsp apple-cider or balsamic vinegar : 2Tbsp EVOO, herbs/spices to taste.



    • Ellen on March 25, 2014 at 06:39

      Marie,

      In what and for how long do you marinate the garlic? ( I have Tershi, Persian recipe for garlic marinated in apple cider vinegar and salt for several years, the longer the better)

      And the tomatini? Never heard of that and when i googled got some cocktail recipe. Is that what you mean? Or is it just a cherry tomato?



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 17:38

      C’est incroyable! It’s truly a perfect dish. Thanks for sharing, Marie. That really is something.



    • DuckDodgers on March 24, 2014 at 17:48

      Another thing that’s pretty interesting is that Paul Jaminet often tells people to use “acids” on their foods — particularly on their starches. In this post, he shows evidence of how using acids from vinegars or lemons can actually help blunt a glucose spike to some degree:

      Paul Jaminet said:

      Acids, Especially Vinegar, Reduce GI

      Traditional cuisines usually make sauces by combining a fat with an acid. Frequently used sauce acids are vinegars and citric acid from lemons, limes, or other citrus fruits.

      It turns [out] that sauce acids can substantially reduce the GI of meals. The best attested is vinegar. From a study in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition [6]:

      In the current study, the addition of vinegar and vinegared foods to white rice reduced the GI of white rice. The acetic acid in vinegar was thought to be responsible for the antihyperglycemic effect. The amount of acetic acid to be effective could be as low as that found in sushi (estimated to be about 0.2–1.5 g/100 g). The antihyperglycemic effect of vinegar is consistent with other studies performed earlier (Brighenti et al, 1995; Liljeberg & Bjorck, 1998). Although vinegar could lower GI vales, the mechanism has rarely been reported. Most studies accounted the mechanism to be due to a delay in gastric emptying. In animal studies, Fushimi (Fushimi et al, 2001) showed that acetic acid could activate gluconeogenesis and induce glycogenesis in the liver after a fasting state. It could also inhibit glycolysis in muscles. [6]

      Other acids also work. Pickled foods, which are sour due to lactic acid released by bacteria, reduce the glycemic index of rice by 27% if eaten before the rice and by 25% if eaten alongside the rice [6].

      Wines, especially red wines, are somewhat acidic. I haven’t seen a study of how drinking wine with a meal affects glycemic index, but it is known observationally that wine drinkers have better glycemic control and, often, long lives. [9]

      Of course, there doesn’t seem to be an explanation as to how an acid induces gluconeogenesis. Well, all of those acids have polyphenols/gylcans. I bet that the glycans in each of those acidic mediums helps act like a prebiotic and induce intestinal gluconeogenesis — much like sprinkling a little PS on starches does.



    • LeonRover on March 24, 2014 at 18:14

      When Ah sees Black Eye Peas, Ah thinks Brown Eyed Girl – from Kingstown, not Belfast.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdvdoXqmSdY

      “Rum is good any time of year”

      Sláinte



    • marie on March 24, 2014 at 19:38

      Mmm, “Warm and relaxing”………almost as good as 5 shots of Jameson 18 year blend on St.Paddy’s.
      “Why bother with the rest ” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROnRP84BnUU



    • SteveRN on March 25, 2014 at 00:03

      Duck, I was reading Heisenbug a few nights ago, in the comments someone mentioned a traditional way of managing diabetes, cutting up two pieces of okra, putting them in a container, fill and drink throughout the day. They were speculating the gel in okra leeched out, a polysaccharide, and feed the good gut bugs, working much as RS seems to. The gel comment made me think of Aloe Vera gel for some reason. So I looked up some about Aloe Vera gel, not juice. Seems the gel, orally ingested, has been found effective for colitis. No reason found, from my limited reading. But, as fecal transplant has been found effective, theoretically by putting back missing good bugs, I would think the gel would probably work by feeding good gut bugs as a prebiotic. Have you heard of using Aloe Vera gel as a prebiotic, do you think it might be a useful addition, or useless repetition of everything else most of us are doing?



    • SteveRN on March 25, 2014 at 00:11

      Guess I will have to add cocoa powder to the smoothie ingredients list!



    • Ellen on March 25, 2014 at 16:13

      “Sweat ” the onions is what you are looking for Marie



    • Tim Maitski on March 25, 2014 at 07:30

      I’ve tested that a few times with a glucose meter. I thought that I could easily work in a cup of hot water with a big wedge of lemon before a meal. But I did a few tests where I would eat a defined amount of rice in the morning with and without a cup of “lemon tea”. I did it a few times and didn’t really see any noticeable difference testing myself every 15 minutes in duplicate. It might work for some but not for me. I was bummed because I thought it would be a great way to reduce my coffee habit with something that would also be good for my blood sugar levels and potentially reduce my body fat. It would be great to have a simple “lemon tea diet”.



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 07:39

      @SteveRN,

      To give you an idea of how easy this is to research now, all you need to do is go to scholar.google.com and do a search for aloe vera glycans. Very few people beyond career glycobiologists seem to be aware of this.

      And… Holy crap, you’re right!!!

      Aloe vera contains glycoproteins (i.e. glycans) and these glycans are being investigated for their “hypoglycemic activity” in diabetics. This is incredible.

      The amazing thing is that the researchers often seem completely mystified as to why some of these compounds are helpful. They don’t seem to realize that it’s just prebiotic glycans and microbial metabolites!

      Find the (raw) glycans and you find the superfoods!



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 07:46

      I thought that I could easily work in a cup of hot water with a big wedge of lemon before a meal.

      Tim, if the effect is related to gut bugs, my guess is it requires a bit more than the diluted juice of a lemon wedge. So, maybe it’s not all that useful in practice. That seems to be the conundrum in all of this. We know that high ORAC foods are good for us, but it’s really freakin difficult to ingest much of them — particularly in their raw form (again, not sure how important it being “raw” is, my guess is that it’s important).



    • Natalya on March 25, 2014 at 07:57

      I just read about Raw apple cider vinegar being helpful to break up biofilm (which can harbor all sorts of nasties):
      http://www.scribd.com/doc/18583142/Gut-Recovery-Program-A-New-Approach-To-Treating-Chronic-Gastrointestinal-Infections
      Fascinating topic.



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 08:22

      @Natalya,

      Cool! So, I guess that’s probably due to the bacteria cleaving glycans that are “phenolic compounds”, some of which can contain antimicrobial properties (mentioned here).

      That’s why this glycobiology business is tricky. We don’t really know how much of the benefit comes from the prebiotics or the metabolites. My guess is that most of the benefits from these obscure glycans come from the metabolites since you don’t need to ingest that many grams of these compounds to get real benefits from them.

      Beta-glucan (found in mushrooms), for instance, is well known for its immune-enhancing effects, but you don’t need to ingest much of it to get real benefits. Same thing with arabinogalactan (from tree bark). You don’t really consume them for their prebiotics (which are probably rather similar to other prebiotics). You consume them for their microbial metabolites.



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 15:41

      Ellen, that would be perfect! We keep the garlic cloves in [wine vinegar+salt+olive oil], but apple-cider vinegar would be better actually.
      Tomatini: even smaller, grape-tomatoes. But cherry tomatoes work fine.

      Dish update > I have it on the best authority possible (!) that for my 1.5lb version above, there are :
      47g RS and 5.5g inulin. And there’s those incalculable glycans too….

      If you want to nearly double the inulin, add another onion (not more garlic, that’s hard to take).
      The onions have very little volume if they are first ‘wilted’ in a pan and also they become sweet then (don’t brown them though – the microwave works even better for wilting : chop onion, put in for 30-45 seconds on high).
      Of course, one can add a marinated artichoke or two for the same reason (and the flavors match).

      Now, someone tell me how we say ‘wilting’ in english when talking of cooking onions – no dictionaries are helping here and my american friends all look at me with surprise (you do What to them?! 😉 )



    • Sarabeth Matilsky on March 25, 2014 at 16:02

      Hi Marie,

      I believe the proper chef’s term for the onion-cooking you’re doing is “sweating.”

      Sounds delicious!
      –Sarabeth 🙂



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 16:21

      Sarabeth, Ellen, thank you so much 🙂



    • gabriella kadar on March 25, 2014 at 17:39

      Duck, damn. I ate the baked sweet potato and now I’m diabetic. 🙁

      Next time: pickles.

      Damn.



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 19:17

      🙂 well I’ve been eating a lot of baked yams/sweet potatoes recently. My sweet tooth has me grabbing the Japanese sweet ones with the purple exterior. I agree the Louisiana ones aren’t my favorite. I guess I should go back to cutting them up and boiling them next time. :/

      Compare the different preparations: http://www.glycemicindex.com



    • DuckDodgers on March 25, 2014 at 19:20

      It’s worth noting that sweet potatoes are barely on the safe starch list:

      http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/01/what’s-the-trouble-with-sweet-potatoes/

      Real yams seem to be the best choice between the two.



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 20:38

      If this has been posted here before, forgive my blindness, but someone just sent me it and damn, the old arguments about legumes are so ‘over’ for me anyway, I was very happy to find this review summarizes almost entirely the evidence-based reasons ‘why’, from a paleo perspective no less.

      Review, legumes in paleolithic times, and cooking :



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 21:11

      DD

      That first pic. Those are exactly the ones I eat, and never anything else. I loath the orange pumpkin flesh ones, in both taste and texture.

      When I was a kid, these were called yams, baked with syrup and marshmallow, served up at Thanksgiving, Xmas. Liked them until I hit puberty.



    • Richard Nikoley on March 25, 2014 at 21:37

      Marie

      Welcome to the Dark Side. The Force is Strong with you.



    • marie on March 25, 2014 at 22:12

      Pfft! Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Do you know what the argument for legumes is where my parents come from? : “The Greek civilization Thrived on them!”
      A bit high-handed….perhaps 😀 . But this is also a region where people are rather remarkably long lived, still today. One can see their point.



    • gabriella kadar on March 26, 2014 at 04:07

      Duck, I think I ate 4X a Jaminet serving.

      Not to self: Must not. Must not.



    • LeonRover on March 26, 2014 at 04:59

      Once the onions are sufficiently sweaty the tomatini burst open of their own accord – figuratively speaking.

      Sláinte



    • La Frite on March 26, 2014 at 05:10

      Salut Marie,

      Je confirme, on dit “faire suer” (oignons, champignons, poireaux, etc).



    • marie on March 26, 2014 at 05:50

      Merci bien. J’ai toujours cru que l’expression familière locale était un peu dramatique…



    • marie on March 26, 2014 at 06:04

      Leon, but surely it’s sweaty RUMPS 😀



    • LeonRover on March 26, 2014 at 07:22

      Let the galled jade wince, our withers are definitely rumped.

      Sweaty .. .. .. Betty .. …. … Hairy Mary, wi’ a Glasgie accent:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IG-u5vaEZc

      Oh, and Hamish was born in Calcutta.

      Sláinte



  8. Adam on March 24, 2014 at 10:24

    I am about 90 kg and usually have to drink quite a bit to feel it (maybe 4 or 5 drinks to really get me going, typically). Last night I went out for dinner with the wife and had 2 glasses of wine. After the 1st glass I was definitely euphoric. I felt drunk in terms of mood (laughing at everything) and chattiness, but totally in control as far as coordination.

    A week or two ago, I went to a friend’s wedding and just didn’t feel anything about the alcohol. I had a couple of drinks but no effects and no desire to drink any more.

    This are two contradictory experiences and very odd ones for me. I do think there is something going on.

  9. Richard Nikoley on March 24, 2014 at 11:34

    “chattiness”

    I read that as cattiness, and had to go do a name check. 🙂

  10. Sarabeth Matilsky on March 25, 2014 at 08:25

    Forgive me if I missed some discussion about this elsewhere, but I’ve just been reading Jaminet’s revised PHD where he discusses what he terms “endotoxemia” (“a poisoning of the body with endotoxins generated in the gut [as a result of “feeding” the gut microbes with dietary fiber].”)

    Jaminet goes on to say: “People with bowel disorders may benefit from obtaining short-chain fats such as butyrate from coconut oil and butters and limiting fiber to keep down endotoxin production.”

    In the same section, I note that he features Tim Steele’s n=1 concerning RS, so he’s not exactly saying that supplementary fiber is bad in all cases. But Jaminet does say, “If the immune system is targeting a certain level of gut bacteria, too much fiber will not lead to more gut bacteria; it will lead to more bacterial ‘births’ as they feed on the fiber, but also more ‘deaths’ as the immune system works to keep the bacterial population down. This means that with high fiber intake, the gut will be exposed to more bacterial endotoxins and also to inflammation generated by immune activity.”

    This is the first time I really contemplated this idea – that potentially, each individual (or a person dealing with certain disease states) has a microbial population “set point” in their gut.

    What implications might this have for supplementing with RS, even considering that RS seems to select for the “good bugs”?

    I’m thinking about all of this partly because of my husband’s slightly paradoxical response to supplemental RS: for the first three weeks, he had amazing relief from certain symptoms. Then, things went right back to where they were before. Now, it’s been 6 more weeks, still taking the starch, but…that lovely three-week respite remains just a memory. I wonder what’s going on in his colon right now…

    • Ellen on March 29, 2014 at 04:53

      Sarabeth,

      I have been hoping somebody really smart would reply to this. It is such a valuable point to make, and Paul has been right about so very much, it makes sense to pay heed.

      So far what i come up with is the importance of stressing the N=1 ness of this whole endeaver. Setting a number of how much RS is ideal may be leading some people down the garden path. We all want something solid to hang onto, but in this case that may be how little we know and that each of us should very cautiously feel our own way, and that there are risks.

      The other thought that keeps nagging at me is a regimen that I heard about a while back for dealing with some chronic disease that involved the pulsing of antibiotics. Perhaps a pulsing of biotics is what we should experiment with. Richard had mentioned that occasional fast days and periods of no Rs has helped him move forward. But I have a feeling that for each of us the optimal levels of both timing and amount of RS is going to vary greatly and will require far more discipline and precision than most of us have.

      Anyway thank you for bringing this up. You are one fierce Momma and I cannot help but think you will prevail in healing your family.



    • gabriella kadar on March 29, 2014 at 06:05

      Sarabeth, from what I’ve learned, endotoxins or lipopolysaccharides are liberated from dead gram negative bacteria. These are the bacteria which do not have a cell wall. If the gut wall is inflamed and junctions between cells are not tight, then lipopolysaccharides will leak into the circulation.

      The sorts of bacteria which are encouraged with a high plant fibre diet (as with Jeff Leach) and consumption of fermented vegetables are gram positives or the ones that have cell walls. Firmicutes, Lactobacillus and Bifidobacter are all gram positives and do not add to the endotoxin load.

      There will always be bacteria of the gram negative type living in the gut. The point of various large studies is to determine what effect various dietary strategies have on tweaking the gut biome profile.



    • Sarabeth Matilsky on March 29, 2014 at 17:20

      Hi Ellen,

      It’s definitely the Precision piece I’m seeking, and quite possibly I could use less of the Discipline part of things… 🙂

      Thanks for your kind words.

      Regards,
      Sarabeth



    • Sarabeth Matilsky on March 29, 2014 at 17:26

      Hi Gabriella,

      Thanks for this – very interesting. But what about bacteroidetes? Aren’t these also RS eaters, and didn’t Tim Steele show a sizable population of these in his American Gut report? I’m wondering whether these (or others) are endotoxin producers that might–if a gut is dysbiotic–cause new overgrowth problems if they’re well fed with RS in the absence of actinobactor/etc.

      Regards,
      Sarabeth



    • gabriella kadar on March 29, 2014 at 18:33

      Sarabeth, I think it’s about balance. You want to encourage lots of good guys. That way you don’t get a leaky gut and the potential bad guys won’t interfere with you. Because all of the gram negatives are potential bad guys. If you look it up, Bacteroides in the bowel, when the bowel is healthy are fine. But if something goes wrong, they get in the blood as bacteremia and can cause life threatening infection elsewhere. Depends on the immune system which depends on the gut bacteria which depend on what you eat or don’t eat…………. around and around we go.



    • Grace/Dr.BG on March 29, 2014 at 22:37

      Sarabeth,

      Thank you for your comments. When the small intestines are affected (which should not be) a bit of weeding helps.

      http://demystifyingmedicine.od.nih.gov/DM14/2014-03-04/Nature-y2012v489p220.pdf

      I use clay or something stronger. Really it pays off to test, not guess, but evolution has taught us well if we listen.

      Certain strains are great at protecting the small intestines — Lactobacilli plantarum, Bifidobacter, StrepEntero, Clostridium, Bacteroidetes, etc and we kinda need them all imho. Can you imagine child with its arms and legs chopped off? That is the sick, modern, post-industrial, antibiotic-stricken gut microbiota — all amputated and maimed by chemicals and herbicides. Did u see this from my last post?
      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iSXjL5Kh6tU/UyNpoTNThzI/AAAAAAAABos/jfri5INN39w/s1600/CH2+manson+rauch+gilmore.png

      Some these strains prefer to dine on finer cuisine (not meat and potatoes, pun)… lol like soluble fiber from medicinal roots (weeds) like konjac, kudzu, dandelions; legumes, etc; and bionic green bananas and plantains (weeds also)!



  11. tatertot on March 26, 2014 at 21:31

    MycroftJones – I posted this somewhere else, like to put it here, too, since we’re all just starting to get smart here:

    These are the species of bifido I would look for in a probiotic. These are the ones most commonly found in adults:

    B. longum,
    B. adolescentis,
    B. breve,
    B. pseudocatenulatum, and
    B. pseudolongum

    OK, I just looked at all the probiotics in our house and none of them had any of these species.
    One (Accuflora) has B. bifidum.

    Prescript Assist has no Bifido. AOR-3 has no Bifido.

    This one: has 2 of the 5 on the list.

    I’m starting to think that bifidobacteria is being overlooked in the gut and supplements.

    B. infantis may not be a normal adult bifido species.

    Here’s another that has 2 off the list: http://www.vsl3.com/discover.asp
    If it were me, I’d want to get some that are in the list I gave above. It came from here: http://aem.asm.org/content/75/6/1534.long

    And, to add to the confusion, I have heard that some companies have ‘invented’ strains. Bifidus Regularis is a well-known example and used in Jamie Lee Curtiss’ yogurt (Activia?). Maybe Bifido Infantis is similar, it seems to have origins in a Proctor and Gamble lab…http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19367213

    • Richard Nikoley on March 27, 2014 at 07:42

      Probiotic 3 is still in their product list on their website:



    • MycroftJones on March 27, 2014 at 00:12

      Thank you Tim. I have updated the chart with the extra information in your post. You can view it here; I hope it is helpful. Looks like Prescript assist has tons of stuff the others don’t, and has none of the stuff that the others do. And the others are really scattered.

      Here in Canada, someone just sold me the wrong type of AOR at the health food store, I didn’t have this handy chart to be able to know the difference between “ProBiotic3” and “AdvancedBiotics” from AOR. Very different products! I wanted SBOs, not more lactobacillus. Wish I could get my money back.

      The health food store insisted that the ProBiotic3 is discontinued and not available. Where else can one get those 3 strains of bacteria, which are found in no other product?



    • MycroftJones on March 27, 2014 at 00:13

      Forgot to put it in the previous post. The comparison chart is at this link: http://reactor-core.org/probiotic-comparison.html



    • Debbie on March 27, 2014 at 10:02

      Is anyone familiar with Dr. Higa’s probiotic?



    • Dave on March 27, 2014 at 10:33

      …it’s made in Canada, but not legal for sale in Canada, as it’s lacking a proper ‘NPN’ product number. Probiotic-3 is listed as an ‘EN’, which is not a licensed product and is no longer available for sale here (as of Dec. 2013). Technically, importing from the USA is not allowed either.

      You can read more about NHPD here –> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/branch-dirgen/hpfb-dgpsa/nhpd-dpsn/index-eng.php



    • Robert on March 27, 2014 at 13:02

      Well that’s interesting. I just bought AOR Probiotic-3 in Canada (Toronto) about a month ago, but I suppose it was left over stock since it is apparently no longer available. Strange. Our health regulations can vary like the weather. Kind of annoying, especially since this probiotic is manufactured in the country.

      You won’t often hear me complain of a Canadian ‘nanny’ state…but I think it’s warranted sometimes. We can’t even import any Vitamin K that’s over 120mcg because anything over that dosage now requires a prescription(!).



    • JubJub on March 28, 2014 at 13:16

      Nice chart! I’m trying to cycle several of these probiotics to see what happens… I may add a few more to the rotation to make sure I’m covering more bases…



    • MycroftJones on March 28, 2014 at 18:21

      Don’t tell vitacost that. I better stock up now before Canada Customs figures that out. The Vitacost Ultra K is amazing; has both types of K2 and also has K1, and in very generous amounts. 90 pills for $10.



    • SteveRN on March 30, 2014 at 01:39

      Tater, or Grace, any reports of people who have tried fecal transplants? I would be interested to give it a try, if I could find somewhere to get it done. In for a penny, in for a pound. Any drawbacks, beyond the ick factor? Any reason it might be more or less effective than just taking the pills? Would you have a better chance of getting the 5 bifido? This could be a great money making plan for the Hadza, fecal transplant tourism for rich white people wanting authentic hunter gatherer shit. I should start a tourism company now.



    • tatertot on March 30, 2014 at 09:05

      SteveRN – Chris Kresser just interviewed a guy the other day: http://chriskresser.com/all-about-fecal-microbiota-transplants from Taymount Clinic in the UK. http://taymount.com/

      There is also a Canadian crew out of Ottawa doing a similar version, known as re-POOP-ulating the gut. Here’s a couple papers on it:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3866254/

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3869191/



    • Gemma on March 30, 2014 at 13:54

      @ SteveRN

      Or you might like to read this:
      “A treatment using faecal matter is a safe and effective procedure for people with a recurring gut infection, the NHS medicines watchdog has said.”

      http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26753116



    • SteveRN on March 31, 2014 at 01:49

      I love the general consensus in this article and the next (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-15113440), that the transplant is a last resort for C. Diff, after more antibiotics, antibiotics that caused the problem in the first place. There also seems to be more of the general fear of bacteria, they mention that future treatments would probably not use feces, just select bacteria, in case there were any bad bacteria in the samples. Now, I understand in certain cases, immune deficiencies and such, you might want to be careful, but as a general rule, if the donor is healthy, the likelihood for the recipient getting sick would have to be small. Seems like a good way to keep costs up, adding more steps than necessary to the process. Fascinating topic, though I realize it might be a little gross for most. I hope this catches on; it seems easy to do without the MD involved, in the home, if you can find willing donors and someone to perform. More science by the masses.



    • SteveRN on March 31, 2014 at 03:23

      Thanks Tater! Crazy stuff. Interesting to see, on the Taymount site, that they seem to have had success with MS and FMT. Of course, Paul Jaminet thinks MS may be an infection and recommends courses of antibiotics to treat, and mentions some MD’s who have had success treating it that way. And Terry Wahls had success with her diet change. What if her success was due to the added fiber, change in gut bacteria with diet change? Seems that gut bacteria is the connecting thread, or could be, with all three approaches. I have a friend from the Marines with MS, I will have to let him know about this. Unfortunately, I do not think he would go in for it, but, you never know. I do not recall seeing anyone on here saying specifically they treated ulcerative colitis with RS, but I could be wrong. Have you heard of it? Could that be a first line attempt before FMT, you think? If you had empty cages, I doubt it would work, but if you just had an imbalance causing the problem, RS might correct that without having to resort to FMT.



    • tatertot on March 31, 2014 at 08:48

      SteveRN – I think RS+Probiotics should be the first line attempt for nearly every disease.



  12. MycroftJones on March 26, 2014 at 19:02

    Dr. Grace, I did a comparison of 3 probiotic products. The original AOR product mentioned here is no longer available. I ordered at the health food shop, and they brought in another product instead, one that has a Canadian “NPN, Natural Product Number”. I compared both products to the Primal Defense Ultra. They appear so different. Are you still doing a group order of Prescript Assist for Canadians? Here is the comparison. For each product comparison, I just show the things that are unique to each product, ignoring the things they have in common.

    AOR Pro Biotic 3 AOR Advanced Biotics
    AOR Pro Biotic 3 has:
    Bacillus meseritericus
    Clostridium butyricum
    Streptococcus faecalis
    AOR Advanced Biotics has:
    Bifidobacterium longum
    Lactobacillus acidophilus
    Lactobacillus casei
    Lactobacillus gasseri
    Lactobacillus plantarum
    Lactobacillus rhamnosus
    Streptococcus thermophilus

    AOR Pro Biotic 3 Primal Defense Ultra
    AOR Pro Biotic 3 has:
    Bacillus meseritericus
    Clostridium butyricum
    Streptococcus faecalis
    Primal Defense Ultra has:
    Bifidobacterium bifidum
    Bifidobacterium lactis
    Bifidobacterium longum
    Lactobacillus acidophilus
    Lactobacillus plantarum
    Lactobacillus rhamnosus

    AOR Advanced Biotics Primal Defense Ultra
    AOR Advanced Biotics has:
    Lactobacillus casei
    Lactobacillus gasseri
    Streptococcus thermophilus
    Primal Defense Ultra has:
    Bifidobacterium bifidum
    Bifidobacterium lactis

  13. MycroftJones on March 26, 2014 at 21:25

    I made a compact little comparison chart of the following:

    VSL#3
    Primal Defense Ultra
    AOR Pro Biotic 3
    AOR Advanced Biotics

    Not sure how to post it on this blog. I’ll email it to Richard.

  14. Stuart on March 29, 2014 at 13:33

    I’m having the same problem getting AOR

    “You won’t often hear me complain of a Canadian ‘nanny’ state…but I think it’s warranted sometimes. We can’t even import any Vitamin K that’s over 120mcg because anything over that dosage now requires a prescription(!).”

    Well I discovered from one USA supplement company there is a way around this problem think it was iherb which had a note saying that if one gets your doctor to write an exception for you they will allow the shipment. This works without the note from the doc as iherb will ship higher dose K to Canada. If you read Swansons exception list it’s unbelievably long. Body building supplement stores seem to have an under the counter supply of contraband at a price.

    Richard did you think about coming out with a two part series of books as 450 pager might be uncomfortably heavy even with onion skin paper.

  15. ADV on June 4, 2014 at 11:24

    Bifidobacterium pseudocatenulatum

    Quote From this Website… http://www.drdobbin.co.uk/phytates

    Quote…
    It helps with the creation of Phytase in the human gut which helps with the handling of Phytic Acid from foods.

    Phytase is the enzyme that breaks down phytate. You can either use a supplement that provides phytase directly or consume a probiotic bacterium (Bifidobacterium pseudocatenulatum) that itself produces phytase.

    Phytase is present in the guts of ruminent animals, e.g. cattle, goats, sheep and deer. However, there is not much phytase present in the human gut, or indeed in pigs, which often get phytase supplements added to their feed. Phytase supplements differ in their effectiveness depending on 1) whether they can survive attack from our own stomach enzyme (pepsin), and 2) the strength of their phytate splitting activity(7).

    Phytase enzymes are not widely available outside of the animal feed sector.

    It is probably a better approach to use bacteria that make their own phytase, than take phytase directly. There is a probiotic strain of bacteria called bifidobacterium pseudocatenatulum that has been used successfully in some studies(8).
    End Quote…

    (8) footnote…
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19674804

    I want MORE mineral absorption with less effort and this Bifdo substrate seems to help with that due to increasing Phytase in the human digestion to some degree.

    Anybody FIND a Probiotic supp with this in it please share…

    TaterTot?

    thanks… /ADV

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