Sorry Low Carb dieters: the Inuit just aren’t that into you
Since this post the other day and subsequent exchanging of some emails and comments here & there with those I’d generally consider advocates of very low carb dieting—to include those advocating near perpetual states of ketosis—I’ve been met with surprise bordering on disbelief that indeed no, the Inuit are no more a “ketogenic society” than anyone else across the planet Earth.
And if not, then there is literally not a shred of any basis that chronic ketosis is a healthy state to be in (and so sorry, but I’m just guessing it’s not “nutritional,” either).
Let’s dive into the three old papers cited in that other post: 1928, 1936, and 1972, all with identical findings.
~ STUDIES ON THE METABOLISM OF ESKIMOS. Peter Heinbecker. Departments of Biological Chemistry and Physiology, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis. July 9, 1928.
The main objects of the experiments were to learn whether detectable ketosis exists among Eskimos under natural dietary conditions; the extent to which ketosis develops in fasting and the rate at which it disappears on glucose ingestion; the “carbohydrate tolerance” as indicated by blood sugar curves; and to determine the respiratory metabolism during and after a ketosis-producing fast. […]
It may be said at once that the Eskimo on his usual dietary shows no ketosis and has high tolerance to ingested glucose. […]
Eskimos show a remarkable power to oxidize fats completely, as evidenced by the small amount of acetone bodies excreted in the urine in fasting.
[emphasis added; note also that “acetone bodies” and/or acetoacetic acid are what are commonly referred to today as “ketone bodies.”]
The paper explains why they’re not in ketosis. Two reasons.
- Very high protein intake (av. 280 grams/day; fat only 135 grams)
- Low carbohydrate, but not very low carbohydrate (“54 gm. of carbohydrate of which the bulk is derived from the glycogen of the meat eaten.”)
Accordingly, with super sufficient protein to make glucose from dietary protein, combined with the meat carbs (liver and muscle glycogen) they get from eating raw, fresh kills, they maintain good glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity.
Normal glucose tolerance with adults receiving about 120 grams 12 hrs after last meal
In order to produce deep ketosis, which the paper explains they were very resistant to, they fasted the subjects for 82 hours. Guess what happened to their glucose tolerance? Shot to hell would be an understatement! This should be a sobering picture for anyone experimenting with prolonged ketosis (starvation).
280-300, and over 220 for three hours after the same 120 gram dose of glucose
Wow, they must be DEB3ATEEZ! No, they were put into starvation, and in order to spare essential glucose for the brain, the metabolism no longer gave a runny shit about cellular sensitivity to insulin. Yea, really healthy and “nutritional,” that chronic ketosis thing.
Now, tell me again how “there’s no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.”
Now I understand exactly what happened when months ago, thinking ‘hmm, maybe there’s something to this,’ I began eating 4-6 oz. portions of protein rather than 8, 12, 16 or more. Upped the fat, stayed lowish carb, and then when I did have a carby meal, glucose tolerance was shot to hell and I’d see 160-180, even 194 once. I also now understand perfectly why upping my carbs to 100-200 of starch daily restored my tolerance to normal human.
Moving on.
~ A STUDY OF THE BLOOD LIPOIDS AND BLOOD PROTEIN IN CANADIAN EASTERN ARCTIC ESKIMOS. Arthur Curtis Corcoran and Israel Mordecai Rabinowitch. Department of Metabolism, The Montreal General Hospital, Montreal. December 13, 1936.
Both lived at Dundas Harbour, on Devon Island (lat. 74deg 35′), and had had practically no carbohydrate food other than the glycogen of animals for about 10 months before the tests. In each case, the test was commenced in the fasting state and the concentrations of the different plasma lipoids were determined before and again 1, 2 and 3 hours after administration of the oil. […]
Also suggestive of an unusual mechanism for the utilization of fat is the absence of ketosis in these natives, whereas the urines of both of Tolstoi’s subjects contained acetone. The explanation of this absence of ketosis is not entirely clear. As shown previously [Rabinowitch & Smith, 1936], though the small amount of carbohydrates in the diets may be more than balanced by the potential sugar production from the large amount of protein to keep the ratio of fatty acid to glucose below the generally accepted level of ketogenesis, the respiratory quotient data suggest another mechanism also. That the Eskimo possesses a very active fat metabolism is suggested from some of the data. [emphasis added]
I can hear the VLC/Keto “nutritionists” now: “SEE, LC MAKES UZ A FATZ BUR3RZ!” Yea, but they’re not in [“nutritional”] ketosis. They’re eating their meat fresh and raw, lots and lots of it (high protein), getting glycogen from it, and it’s also plenty enough to ensure robust gluconeogenesis from dietary intake.
They are not putting themselves into a “nutritional” state of starvation by restricting protein along with carbohydrate, in order to consume more micronutrient bankrupt fat, without even resistant, fermentable fibers to ensure vitamin-synthesis by gut microbes—just to ensure keto-hocus-pocus long term. The Inuit are not doing anything like it, have never done anything like it, and would avoid it like the plague if they had ever even conceived of such a harebrained idea.
A final note on this one, because some are surely going to purposely misread the study so they can lie. First of all, as the paper makes clear, this was a study about blood lipids and the differences between different populations, i.e., those eating a “civilized diet,” vs. those further north eating predominately their natural diet, except for at most 2 months of the year (remember that number).
In order to determine the efects, if any, of the dietary habits of these natives, the data, as stated, were divided into two groups, namely, (a) those obtained in Hudson Bay and Strait amongst natives who live, to an appreciable extent, upon mixed diets, and (b) those obtained in Baffin and Devon Islands amongst natives whose diets, except for about 2 months in the year, consist of the natural foods of their environment (seal, whale, narwhal, walrus, etc.). A summary of this division of the data is recorded in Table III in which are also recorded, for comparative purposes, the average values found with the same technique amongst civilized peoples. It will be noted that the average concentrations of total lipoids, neutral fat, total fatty acids and phospholipins and the average ratio of phospholipins to total cholesterol were higher amongst the meat-eaters than amongst those whose diets, in addition to meats, consisted also of appreciable quantities of carbohydrates (flour etc.). [emphasis added]
Now, recall what I quoted above:
Both lived at Dundas Harbour, on Devon Island (lat. 740deg 35′), and had had practically no carbohydrate food other than the glycogen of animals for about 10 months before the tests. […]
…the absence of ketosis in these natives. [emphasis added; plus, 10 + 2 = 12]
…Just so you can keep your liars straight.
~ ALASKAN ARCTIC ESKIMO: RESPONSES TO A CUSTOMARY HIGH FAT DIET. Kang-Jey Ho, M.D., Ph.D., Belma Mikkelson, B.S., Lena A. Lewis, Ph.D., Sheldon A. Feldman, M.D., and C. Bruce Taylor, M.D. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. August 25, 1972.
Grain products and simple carbohydrates are virtually absent from the diet, as they must be imported from a great distance at considerable cost.
The marine mammals and the herds of caribou, upon which the Eskimos depend, tend to be migratory, and famines occur occasionally, especially during the long dark winters (5, 6). In the summertime, their diet is usually plethoric. In general, they have no fixed time for meals and eat as they please, but they usually do have one good meal toward the end of each day. Much of their food is eaten uncooked, partly from preference and especially from necessity, because fuel is scarce. […]
Average total daily caloric intake was approximately 3,000 kcal per person, ranging from 2,300 to 4,500 kcal. Approximately 50% of the calories were derived from fat and 30 to 35% from protein [260 grams on average]. Carbohydrate accounted for only 15 to 20% of their calories, largely in the form of glycogen from the meat they consumed. Grain products were scarce and although sucrose was not unknown, the average adult ingested less than 3 g/day, primarily for sweetening tea or coffee.
Are you noticing a pattern here in the composition of diet in all three studies, and that the the VLC, Ketogenic and Zero Carb folks have it conveniently wrong? How many times have you heard over the years that “Atkins is not a high protein diet, it’s a high fat diet?” Well, Atkins may indeed be high fat, low to moderate protein, but it certainly doesn’t have the Inuit as a healthful population as an example, to justify such tomfoolery—as its proponents seem to do endlessly; nor does it have any other population I’m aware of, either. Moreover, much of that protein was fresh and raw, thus providing significant glycogen (carbohydrate) from meat, another aspect that in no way supports a VLC, Ketogenic, or ZC diet. The entire very low carb phenomenon is in part a charade when it uses these Inuit and other populations to justify doing something so unnatural, so unprecedented!
And sorry, but in all cases in all three studies, protein is 250 grams and upward, on average. Ever tried to ingest that much protein without drinking it? Well, I have: 280g on workout days and 230g on rest days, while doing LeanGains for months. It’s high protein. Trust me. I hated that part the most, especially when it had to be combined with lower fat on the workout days, in order to accommodate far higher carbohydrate and stay within total caloric bounds because for Martin Berkhan, it’s count calories or go home. So this is another thing Atkins and other VLCers get wrong if in any way thinking they are modeling some natural, proven healthy diet by claiming it’s not and should not be very high protein. It’s not even close. And by the way, Atkins isn’t even a ketogenic diet beyond induction and as I recall, one was supposed to find the level of carbohydrate that would keep him out of ketosis. So, this whole “nutritional ketosis” (an enormous contradiction in terms, incidentally) thing is even a vast departure from Atkins, all the while Atkins is likely too low in protein for many practitioners. What a mess.
Well, no need to delay further, you already know the punchline.
Each Eskimo’s serum was tested for the presence of ketone bodies by the strip paper technique (18), which is sensitive to concentrations of 1 mg/ 100 ml or greater and all serums were negative. This does not preclude an increase in ketone body production during this time; usually these substances do not attain noxious concentrations until after fasting periods longer than 50 hr. [emphasis added]
So there you have it. Three studies separated by 44 years, from the West of Alaska to the Hudson Bay, all on Inuit with just about the same high protein dietary ratios, all on their natural diets, and not a single subject in ketosis, ever; and it was more difficult to get them into ketosis than for normal subjects, requiring them to be starved for more than two days straight.
So, what are the lies of commission and omission by advocates of very low carb, ketogenic and zero carb diets we’ve exposed so far, over the last few weeks?
- The poster child Inuit do indeed get carbohydrate, above 50g per day on average, from “meat sugar” (liver and muscle glycogen that’s only available in appreciable amounts when fresh and raw). See more here.
- The poster child Inuit do indeed get fiber, from meat (glycans in the raw blood, raw meat, raw grisly bits and raw connective tissues that resist enzymatic digestion and the gut microbes take over). See more here. Here too.
- The poster child Inuit are never in ketosis unless in a severely fasted state.
- The poster child Inuit indeed eat as high protein as possible, in oder to have adequate glucose available, both from the aforementioned glycogen, as well as in sufficient quantity for gluconeogenesis without wasting lean tissue.
In other words, I can’t think of a single thing I can recall from VLCers, Ketosis fans, or Zero-Carb zealots about the Inuit that’s true and accurate—at least in the context of what their diet actually is and how their metabolism responds to it.
Do you believe this is all an innocent mistake? After all, even the oldest paper, from 1928, seemed to take it as an matter of course that carbs from meat (glycogen) was obvious and well known, and all three papers mention that matter-of-factly.
Accordingly, I think you’ve been conveniently lied to by some people. Why, would be up to you to form an opinion.
So, what are my closing thoughts, suggestions? It’s simple. In order to do LC healthfully, based upon the lowest carbohydrate intake of any population we know about, you:
- Get that protein high, and unless I’m not mistaken, this has always been Dr. Mike “Protein Power” Eades’ take on LC. Good for him.
- Unless you’re a hunter out eating your kills fresh and raw, including the offal, then you need to get at least 50g of carbohydrate daily. I’d suggest safe starches (rice, potatoes, traditionally prepared legumes).
- Get over the notion that fat is particularly healthful or nutritious. 50% of calories ought to be about the upper limit.
- Scroll up and look at the 2nd chart again and get over the notion that a state of prolonged ketosis (starvation) is in any way healthful and does anything but mess up your glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity royally. Inuit have excellent glucose tolerance when eating their natural diet. You don’t, if you’re keeping yourself in ketosis.
- Get over the notion that when in ketosis, eat a piece of birthday cake, and see your BG spike to 200 that “you can’t tolerate any carbohydrate.” No, you’re just confirming a bias based on bullshit information. You’ve fucked up your tolerance and insulin sensitivity by following shitty, wrong advice. Your fault. Your metabolism is probably fine if you follow the above steps. Expect to have high readings for a few days until you adjust. Toss your meter for a while, so you don’t freak yourself out.
- Exercise ketosis intermittently. It’s called a fast. 1-2 days, once every while. Likely healthful in terms of hormesis and autophagy.
- Get resistant fermentable fibers like resistant starch in your diet so that your gut bugs have the substrates by which to synthesize vitamin nutrients. And in order to ensure that you’re not feeding empty cages, such as after lifelong occasional rounds of carpet bombing antibiotics, or years of VLC dieting that has starved some of them to extinction, get on some rounds of soil-based probiotics.
- Stop being such idiots about all of this.
Alright then. Does that about cover it?
DuckDodgers 
Borofergie 
Nice post.
But, I would add that likely every single bite the Inuit consumed contained “animal fibers”. It wasn’t just the “grisly bits”. In a freshly killed animal, glycans are everywhere in the animal. And these glycans tend to be indigestible carbohydrate compounds that make up “animal fiber”. These glycans are found in the muscles, in the blood, in the skin, etc. These ingestible glycosylated carbs are everywhere and constitute various forms of animal fiber.
So, for instance, drinking the fresh raw blood tapped from the side of a cow — as the Masai do — is chock full of glycans. In fact, blood has about 150 different kinds of glycans in it!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16052617
That means fresh blood is likely an extremely prebiotic drink.
I think people are getting the idea that “animal fiber” is just in the connective tissues and “hard” pieces. But that’s not true. The glycans are in every single bite of a freshly killed raw animal. Every bite the Inuit ate was full of animal fiber.
Really any piece of fresh/raw animal should be full of prebiotic glycans. Sushi included.
And, yes, cooking and time degrades most of these animal fiber glycans. The only glycans that really survive over time and heat tend to be the dry/hard pieces. Better than nothing, but probably not much compared to what the Inuit and Masai consume when they eat/drink fresh and raw animal products.
Thanks Duck. Edited accordingly.
A raw meat diet you say?
Take a look at this picture:
http://i.imgur.com/4R6QisK.jpg
Wow, cool picture! It actually made me feel like eating some! Primal instinct is waking up in the middle of the IT office where I am sitting on ass programming some BS …
You should come to one of my BBQs. Once you get past the burnt on the outside bit, it looks exactly like that in the middle.
Yeah, I like the meat rare. My wife hates it … since I am the home cook, I have to prolong the cooking time for her. I tried to convince her that the longer is not necessarily the better but quasi raw-meat is repelling to her … sigh … (and if you could her face when she sees me eating raw pieces of liver in the kitchen … I have to hide from her … )
Fantastic post Richard!! Thank you.
As well, it is great to read DuckDodgers research insights.
It’s sinking into my narrow brain pipe little by little. I wish I had the cojones to eat raw fresh kills. :o) Though I could eat sushi all day long.
I really want to do right by my dog. I think I failed my beloved Woody who died of prostate cancer last year. I fed him a very good quality raw ration of nose to tail cow. But I didn’t know anything about animal fiber and “glycans”, etc…. With our surviving dog, I am adding some larch arabinogalactan, a prescript assist OR an AOR Pro3 OR a Prima Defense, a sprinkle of pysilium, a little white rice or potato. Now, his raw meat source is from local pastured ruminants (lamb, goats, cows – ground pancreas, spleens, hearts, livers, kidneys, tripe) and I’ll throw him a marrow or knuckle bone 1x wkly. Does the slaughtered, freshly ground and then frozen organs still have enough carbs? Is this balanced with the fiber hack I’m adding?
Dreaming of seal skin (sorry PETA)….
Amazing info here. It takes me a while to wrap my head around it but I think I get it. Had my first black beans in a while tonight. Let them bubble a bit on the counter and then slow cooked. Yay!
Regina,
It appears that dogs evolved, over the past few thousand years, eating our starchy leftovers. This is evidenced by the fact that domesticated dogs developed genes to break down starch:
The Scientist: Dogs Adapted to Agriculture
It’s very difficult to get freshly killed meat for a dog. And it’s not like humans have been eating much freshly killed meat once agriculture came to be (agri-meat is traditionally hung for tenderization). So, in the spirit of human/dog tradition, I’ll just give my dog a few scraps of starchy leftovers with their raw meat. Sometimes I’ll just give my dog a little spoonful of raw honey.
Oh, and I’ve also started giving my dog an Honest Kitchen base mix, which has a good amount of raw natural plant fibers. Her stool is a bit bulkier, but I think she’s fermenting more SCFAs now.
I knew something was amiss when I took my dog to the farmer’s market one day and she started whining and pulling me towards the pile of sweet potatoes — wagging excitedly.
I have had great success feeding my 16 year old cairn raw organs (local, pastured, etc!!) mixed with a bit of fish, some minced carrot and greens and a berry or two, a bit of yogurt mixed with some powdered kelp and alfalfa. That is dinner, breakfast is a vew raw chicken necks.
As for probiotic I have been using Proviable, which seems much more effective than the other dog probiotic i was using. i am not sure it is a good idea to use human probiotics.
It’s also important to understand that by eating raw meats and raw fats the Inuit were also consuming raw enzymes. Their bodies didn’t need to create their own enzymes so their energy needs would have been lower than someone who consumes a cooked meat diet.
For instance, if you eat raw fat, you also consume lipase. Normally we need to create our own lipase to digest fat, but the Inuit were getting a free ride. Their food was basically digesting itself! This frees up a lot of energy for the Inuit and they needed that extra energy to make their foods more energy positive and keep themselves warm!
As Edward Howell put it:
I guess the “fresh & raw” aspect is rather important here. Stefansson and Andersen developed ketosis at various periods during their 1 year of a meat-only diet, although for the most part they were eating: “ordinary, refrigerated, butchers’ meat. The meat was usually boiled or stewed, the inside being left rare…”
Fresh & raw =/= rare.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=267994
http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
Great find, Bill! That seems to be the difference. Interestingly, Arctic explorers who cooked the same meats that the Inuit were eating raw tended to feel sluggish and had difficulty staying warm. You can see why when you put the puzzle pieces together. Raw enzymes, raw prebiotics, etc. The Inuit didn’t need to expend as much energy digesting raw meat/fat.
And Steff developed “rabbit starvation” during his first couple of days on overly lean meat.
Your closing thoughts are a nice summary. Covers it very well. Thanks!
So should I go make a potato now and end my proposed 2 month cyclic keto experiment…? So much to think about >.<
Justin:
Depends on how cyclic. For my money, If I wanted to emulate the Inuit, I’d go with keto from December through Feb, maybe, and the rest of the year get 50-150g carbs per day.
I’m sure there’s many ways to do this sensibly, and I do see the hormetic and autophagic value of intermittent ketosis. But constant, year round, chronic ketosis, until proven otherwise (and there are now ZERO cultures to use as example—and when they put them into ketosis artificially, meta goes to shit) is the realm of serious guinea pig.
Or, in FTA vernacular: fucktard.
The Inuit likely weren’t in ketosis much during the Winter either. Hydrolyzed “cached” meats broke down into sugars. The prebiotics in kelp were boiled down into sugars. They ate a lot of “mouse food” during that time of year, which was rather carby. Mussels were rich in glycogen that time of year and were collected in daring, life-risking harvests under the ice. And their raw meats were so easily digested (rich in enzymes) that they weren’t burning any calories digesting food like we do — thus their glucose needs were probably reduced.
I don’t see why the inuit would be in ketosis mid winter. I’m currently at the north end of Baffin Island 500km north of the arctic circle. Very cold and dark for a few months but a few of the hardy locals have been successfully hunting caribou this whole time. They also still fish and hunt seals. More success as the sun has come back up but they weren’t totally without fresh food. Haven’t managed to do the raw meat myself though.
Snowmobiles help a lot. They’re not using sled dogs to transport caribou are they? Too bad you haven’t gone for the raw meat. Looks quite good. Then you would be able to let us know how the fresh seal and caribou meat are.
I have a feeling I’d do better on them than beans. There’s just something satisfying about chewing on raw meat.
Hope your house is dry. Too much mould up north in those houses. One of my colleagues has been on a ventilator now for 3 months because he got a fungal infection in the lungs. He was regularly going up north to provide treatment but ignored the signs of the infection until it was almost too late to save his life. He CAN blink. Nothing quite like an IV diet: he’s lost 60 pounds. Dangerous places.
Excellent, Richard. (I put the comma in there.. but excellent Richard is probably appropo as well.)
Not 100% sure here but I’ve been reading up on Chondroitin sulphate and Glucosamine. You know how people take this shit to improve their arthritic symptoms? Like resistant starch and Inuit food: reduces gut inflammation and reduces general body inflammation thereby reducing arthritic joint inflammation.
I’m a total ‘duh’ here but I never checked up on this stuff and people claim it helps them. I used to think, it’s a freaking protein (but it’s not, thanks Duckie) and it’s digested (it’s not, thanks Richard and Duckie). All those people consuming gelatin? Hm, what really happens to gelatin?
Maybe Duckie can PubMed this better.
If I’m entirely ‘out of it’, just delete my comment.
So chondroitin sulfate is an example of a glycosaminoglycan (GAG). Since they are glycans, your body typically shouldn’t be able to digest them. You can find them by eating some weird parts (or supplementing eating gelatin or collagen hydroslylate)
If the bacteria don’t eat them (not sure if they can or not) my understanding is that glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) can be assimilated directly into the body. Probably depends on the size of the GAGs and other factors, if I had to guess.
GAGs are found in a lot of places in nature. For instance, when you consume blueberry GAGs, it looks like those GAGs become a part of you:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21925856
So, it would stand to reason that by eating a diet rich in GAGs, your body doesn’t need to waste energy making those GAGs. I suspect that the Inuit were able to save energy and reduce their glucose expenditures (and thus, keep themselves warmer) by consuming a diet rich in pre-formed compounds like GAGs.
Interestingly, GAGs are being used by the cosmetic industry now for some very fancy skin care products. You can smear GAGs right on your skin and they get assimilated into the skin and can reduce wrinkles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrinkle#Glycosaminoglycans
A couple of thoughts:
The first two papers tested urine ketones, not serum ketones. The third paper which you quote thus, “Each Eskimo’s serum was tested for the presence of ketone bodies by the strip paper technique (18)” includes a cite, which is, “Examination of the urine. In: Toddy Sanford: Clinical Diagnosis by Laboratory Methods”. Did they use blood serum on urinary strips? Was it a typo? I’d guess the latter, as this paper
“Development of Paper-strip Test for 3-Hydroxybutyrate…”
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/7/5/481.full.pdf
Describes developing a paper-strip test *12 years after the Eskimo paper was published.*
Does testing serum on a urine strip work, if so, why develop a serum-specific test 12 years later?
At any rate, urine ketone strips aren’t all that accurate, even when you do use them on the spot, not months later. Blood tests are the most accurate gauge of blood ketone levels (which is what matters), and dumping fuel into the urine isn’t a great use of resources, even glucose only gets dumped in pathological states, as the glucose challenge in the fasted state demonstrates.
What’s really interesting is this quote:
“The fact that the Eskimos had high serum FFA and low glucose levels (approximately 65mg/100ml) indicated that free fatty acids played a major role in body energy production”
I suggests that the Eskimos weren’t using ketones for energy because they could use FFA instead, even in the presence of a glucose level that would cause a doctor to label you hypoglycemic.
So my takeaway from this post (straw-man attacks aside) is that the Eskimos adapt to a low-carb diet by using FFA, and don’t need to resort to ketones except during fasts. Which, in the traditional state, could be months long…
While I agree with you that chronic ketosis is unneccesary, I don’t think that you’re a guinea pig by attempting it: Johns Hopkins has been had patients on ketogenic diets for decades, with no ill effects.
It wasn’t a typo. I see that Ketostix strips were considered accurate for testing blood through 1972.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/6/398.full.pdf+html
However, it was later discovered that there were situations where the Ketostix could be inaccurate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1788129/pdf/brmedj02206-0029.pdf
Nevertheless, of all the Inuit tested by various researchers, with the various kinds of tests that were employed, they still never found elevated ketone levels in any of them as far we know.
“Johns Hopkins has been had patients on ketogenic diets for decades, with no ill effects.”
Cool. Let’s use hospital patients as a model for a “‘nutitional’healthyketogeniclifestyle,” now that the Inuit are all tied up.
Duck, just as a suggestion; I anticipated this.
I knew that very quickly, somebody was going to dismiss (or at at least modestly Q, which is what I take this as) everything on the basis of study methods. Fortunately, I spent the most time of all reading over and over, chewing on that.
And it’s obvious. They knew exactly what they were testing for, and had plenty of control via subjects in their schooling. One cannot read those papers and honestly come away with any other conclusion but that they new what ketosis was, knew how to test and measure it, had tested an measured plenty of subjects in and out of ketosis, and the Inuit were not in ketosis.
In fact, in the 1928 paper, they went to great lengths to critique their own tests due the time lap between drawing samples and final testing, but they demonstrated controls from other studies in order to assure themselves that their numbers were as accurate as could be had in the day, and in terms of control like that, relative results come into play as well.
This won’t be the end of it. It is the only thing zealots have left.
“They were is deep ketosis, they just measured wrong.”
Just watch. Liars and charlatans always do this.
If you calculate based on the Woodyatt formula on the website given the stated levels of macro nutrients they would be just below the minimum level of ketosis around a ratio of 1. Ketosis is ususally present from 1.5 – 2 or above.
Agreed. If they were in ketosis, there would have been evidence of it.
In my experience if you are not showing ketosis on ketostix then you are nowhere near ketosis if using an actual blood meter. Not the other way around.
What’s really hilarious to me is that ketosis is simply an elevated level of offshoots from fat burning. So, duh, let’s eat 85% fat, 10% protein, maybe 5% carbs just so we can say we’re in ketosis. Well duh, you’re burning dietary fat (gotta burn something) and the ketones show up.
Back when Jimmy first began his “nutritional ketosis” deal and was all on about how much weight he was losing and still doing his food logs, someone—I forget who—did a before and after analysis, clearly showing a significant reduction of caloric intake.
So at least be honest. It’s not the magic of ketones in the blood or urine. But if that’s what it takes to reduce the amount of food ON AVERAGE OVER TIME, then that’s why the weight drop.
I capitalized all that because this LC hocus pocus always reminds me of my grandmother who always told us about the jackpot she hit on the slots (we grew up in NV), but never about how much she feeds them over time. Similarly, the LCers alway tout the day they ate 10,000 calories of fat, never about the days they weren’t very hungry and didn’t eat much.
having done atkins and having been done by atkins ,,i have always viewed it as a low calorie diet
“Get over the notion that fat is particularly healthful or nutritious. 50% of calories ought to be about the upper limit.”
I agree with most of what you said, except that. Specifically for someone who is stuck in low saturated fat, and high in omega 6 land. Their bodies are probably starving for some good fats, and they haven’t been eating mostly good fats for the entirety of their lives.
I suspect most VLCers moving to LC or MLC already got their fill of fat, and it would not have much added benefit to go to 70-80% of calories from fat over 50% or less, but I’m guessing it’s a different story for someone who needs some rebuilding.
Stefansson had sugar in his urine after a year of eating the Inuit diet. Isn’t that enough to stop this VLC madness?
Fatty, could you direct me to the source of this information?
Gabriella, I spoke too soon. It was Karsten Anderson, Stefansson’s partner in the all-meat diet trial, who had glycosuria at the end.
This means he gave himself diabetes as a direct result of eating only meat, since his urine was normal before the study and, funny enough, went back to normal after he reintroduced carbs at the end of the study.
It’s all in the original study, by Walter S. McClellan and Eugene F. DuBois. The title is “Prolonged Meat Diets with a Study of Kidney Function and Ketosis”, February 13, 1930. The funders of the study were THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN MEAT PACKERS. Gee how unsurprising that all of this has been touted as “proof” of the benefits of VLC.
Here is the PDF:
http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
If I remember correctly, during those tests, Stefansson mentioned that Anderson preferred his meat cooked medium rare as opposed to Stefansson having his rare. With the glycogen being somewhat a marginal source of carbo, this could have something to do with Anderson’s development of glycosuria?
Kyle
At the conclusion of the “Bellevue Experiment”, another lesser known study was published by Edward Tolstoi, who got to test Stefansson and Anderson with a glucose tolerance test once the year of meat was completed. Anderson’s glycosuria is discussed heavily in the paper. Tolstoi also discusses the Heinbecker study that was referenced by Richard in the article.
This supports what Richard also noticed in the Heinbecker study.
Sinclair (1953) points out that Krogh & Krogh grossly underestimated the caloric requirements of the Eskimos by not factoring in the additional calories needed for surviving the extreme cold weather and internally thawing frozen meat. So, while most research erroneously estimated the Inuits’ caloric intake on Western intakes of ~2,000-2,500 calories per day, Sinclair showed that 2,500 calories was too low for the Inuit who needed to keep warm in Arctic temperatures. Sinclair cites a number of references and accounts of the Eskimos consuming between 8 to 10 pounds of meat per day (which is quite easy to do when raw meat is consumed…it’s cooked meat that is difficult to eat in large quantities).
Eskimos that consumed 8 to 10 pounds of meat per day would have obtained considerable amounts of glycogen, especially if they consumed marine mammals.
It all helps explain why Heinbecker observed good glucose tolerance while Eskimos were fed their traditional diet and why Stefansson and Anderson had poor results with their glucose tolerance tests after their year of Western-style meat eating.
Finally, it’s worth pointing out that the Bellevue Experiment used fatty Western meats while the Eskimos dealt with much leaner land mammals.
Yes, even the Bellevue Experiment counted the glycogen in Stefansson’s meat.
At any rate, the Inuit did not have access to such animals that were bred to be fat. No, they ate wild animals that tended to be much leaner. For instance, a caribou is extraordinarily lean — yielding, at most, 50 pounds of back fat and 30 pounds of cavity fat from a well-nourished 1,000 lb carcass!!
If an average adult male has to eat 8 to 10 pounds of (raw) meat per day to keep warm, there just isn’t enough caribou fat to go around for everyone to stay ketogenic. And as Per Wikholm uncovered, Stefansson’s own writings showed that caribou pemmican was too lean to be ketogenic.
While overlooking the fact that some fat was used for burning oil lamps, VLC proponents claim that Eskimos discarded lean meats, or fed it to their dogs (who would apparently therefore not be ketogenic). But, as far as I know, they have shown no evidence of this practice beyond a Samuel Hearne quote from “the twenty-second of July” — when carbs were seasonally available — of Northern Canadian Indians who apparently killed many deer solely for “tongues, marrow and fat”. That doesn’t show us much beyond the fact that fat was simply preferred.
I’m not aware of any cultures that purposefully wasted such enormous quantities of meat on a regular basis. That’s a complete fantasy as far as I can tell.
Correction: A “1,000 carcass” was an overstatement (I had obtained the erroneous figure from this article). A more accurate figure would have been between 330 lbs to 680 lbs for a male caribou.
It’s my understand that the 50 lb slab of back fat that is often mentioned would only be found on the largest caribou, during their peak of nourishment — with smaller caribou having much smaller slabs of fat. We are still talking about a very lean animal.
Ya, know this is the Chinese Year of the Wooden Horse.
One might name (I almost wrote “christen”) this type of eating
. paleodoureic
in honour of our P. Robustus ancestors and current Bonobo cousins.
Paul & John liked getting the Norwegian kind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkcRZSdc8us
Sláinte
PS Do you wish for megalithic “big standing stones” or for megadoureic .. .. ..
The choice is yours.
Thanks this was really interesting.
This probably doesn’t add anything to the debate but I ended up feeding my dog a raw meat dog food a couple of weeks ago – I bought it by mistake. He started skipping about like a puppy (he’s 17) so he’s been on raw meat since then.
Something else to think about, dogs eat entrails and entrails frequently are full of chewed plants. We had a cow die once over winter in sub zero conditions. By spring, when the cow was found thawed out, almost all the meat and skin was still on the bones, but the entrails were all cleaned out of the inside. By coyotes probably, which are abundant in the area, or possibly bear.
Great post. This one really sums it up, shows your level of frustration with stupidity, and conveys the well founded message.
Even when I was near 0 carb a few years back, I always stayed very high protein. My thought process at the time was something like “well I hear protein still spikes insulin, and I’m probably not keto given the 200+ grams of protein a day but just the thought of going 70% fat makes me feel unsatisfied.”
Its funny, my best friend started original PaNu style eating around the same time I did. He tried to get his wife on it. She was not fat but wanted to tone up, drop some pregnancy fat, etc. She loved bananas, fruit juice, and carbs generally. She said at the time “I’m not sticking to this high fat stuff, it just makes me feel bad, sort of gross, and like I’m getting fat.”
At the time I dismissed her feelings as CW influenced perception. Of course, I had gone from high protein/vegetable/fruit feeling “fit and healthy” and sitting well below 10% BF, to gorging on heavy cream, feeling “heavy” after meals, and somehow ignoring the layer of fat appearing on me (probably because my weight stayed the same (and I radically altered my workout so I wasn’t able to track strength changes)).
I’m curious if there was any mention of stool volume or regularity in any of those studies.
That seems to be the biggest change that I am seeing from using potato starch and Prescript Assist.
If all of those glycans or “animal fibers” are feeding their gut bugs than I would anticipate maybe seeing that being indicated in their stools. I’m seeing a huge difference vs. when I had tried an Atkins type diet. If their stools were large and frequent, that would be another piece of evidence showing a difference between the Inuit and VLC.
Tim, I believe raw meat dieters tend to have smaller and more compact poos. That’s what happens to my dog on a raw meat diet at least. But, my dog poos like clockwork every morning and if I feed her a plant-based dog food, her stools are abnormally large. I can think of a number of reasons why that might be (lots of cellulose, more water in stools, etc.) Hard to imagine that a diet rich in plant fibers would be digested in the same manner as a diet rich in animal fibers. I think they have different effects in the digestive tract.
Matt Stone has written about resistent starch cleanse
http://180degreehealth.com/newsletter-issue-5/
Obvious April Fool troll, at least the first para, which is where I stopped reading it. Stone’s schtick is obvious. Against everything anyone else does. He’s not an iconoclast, he just calls attention by finding a way to counter anything and everything.
I always thought that banana peels are toxic. But I did a quick Google search and found that they are quite edible and healthy. I also found an article where they were successful using banana peels to purify water of lead and copper. Could they be a good heavy metal cleanse? Would probably want to use organic peels.