I know full well that this is not the sort of post most people love.
I also know full well that the only thing that makes me a blogger people pay attention to is that lacking some fundamentals of sciences, I nonetheless have a keen sense of contradictions, posturings, logical fallacies, diversions, syntheses, and integrations. A is A.
For over a year now, I and several collaborators collectively known as “Duck Dodgers” have engaged in a dispute with Mike Eades—a dispute that he has no time for, except to take a lot of time reminding everyone how little time he has. In spite of everyone having their own opinions on how I ought to conduct my affairs, not a single vowel of an alphabetic integration—mixed with consonants of discord—means a runny shit to me. It’s my blog: there’s the door.
…A lot of time recently has been spent in Eades’ comment section—330 of them and counting—and much of it reads like some of my own comment threads. You’re perfectly free to not care a wit about it; but I do, and I disagree with all notions that I ought not take this with the utmost of seriousness. It’s extremely serious to me, and it goes way beyond the Inuit and Ketosis. There’s the door.
It goes to basking in the comfort of sycophants. A man who would take it easy long-term defending basic dogma, rather than embrace new discovery, knowledge, and understanding: synthesize and integrate them.
We’re dealing with a basic Guru.
“If you meet the Buddha, kill him.” — Linji
So Eades decided to put Duck Dodgers in his place; this, after promising for a year or more to “don’t worry, an answer is coming right up. It’s just basic biochemistry.” …If you’re unfamiliar with the background, there’s plenty of link fodder to go chasing after if you’re better than demanding to be fed with spoons. You can start here.
Basic-psychologically, Eades has gone all in on his necessary delusion that none of “Duck Dodgers” understand basic biochemistry. (It’s really advanced biochemistry; but this is the sort of characterization basic Gurus deal in for basic Guru-reasons.)
March 3, 2015 at 4:09 pm
What’s uncoupling? If you don’t know, you shouldn’t be throwing the term around.
This isn’t a debate between Peter and me, it’s between you and me. You’ve made it personal, and now when you’ve been caught in a bunch of BS showing how clueless you are about the very fat burning (for heat, as I recall) you’ve been touting, you try to foist the whole thing off as a disagreement I have with Peter.
Just so you’ll know, fats are burned in the mitochondria. They have to get in there somehow, which they do by riding in on carnitine. Attaching the fatty acid to the carnitine requires the enzyme CPT1 (and CPT2 to get through the inner mitochondrial membrane, but the CPT1 is the rate limiting enzyme). So if all Eskimos have CPT1 deficiencies, how do they get the fat in their mitochondria to burn for heat as you suggest? And if the CPT1 deficiency is widespread, how do Eskimos burn fat if they can’t get it into the mitochondria where fat is oxidized? Unlike glucose, fat can’t be burned other than in the mitochondria.
Only once the fat is burned can there be uncoupling. Uncoupling is involved in the electron transport chain, which basically consumes energy (thrown off by fat oxidation) to creates an electrochemical gradient across the inner mitochondrial membrane. This gradient is what ends up powering the turbine-like crank to make ATP. So you’ve got the electron transport chain coupled with oxidative phosphorylation, which is the process of making ATP. Uncoupling occurs when the energy required to create the electrochemical gradient is somehow dissipated and ends up not being used to create ATP. In other words the process of creating the gradient is uncoupled from the process of producing ATP.
Would you care to speculate as to how this uncoupling occurs? Or what the end result is?
Or do you need another round of basic biochemistry instruction so you’ll know the answers to those questions?
Notice how he’s finally and thoroughly detailed how the Inuit are in perpetual ketosis, so keto-adapted that neither ketones nor their by-products can be detected in Eskimo, how they eat high fat, moderate protein year round, don’t need fat for lamps, cooking, or dogs, etc.
Here’s the thing. The Duck Dodgers had been chewing on the questions Eades posed for about a day. When dealing with the CPT1a mutation and FFA oxidation a-la Eskimo, there are papers that both answer and raise questions. It’s a bit beyond basic. But because Eades is basically most of all concerned with the basic integrity of basic low-carb dogma, he basically missed important distinctions.
Even basic veterinarian Peter seems to take it that way (but all of it prefaced as basic speculation), as he’s basically unblessed with Mike’s basic certitude of all being basically settled on the basic basis of basic biochemistry. Sometimes though, advanced thinking is required. Peter wrote:
This is not quite so simple.
Uncoupling is one component. Uncoupling respiration generates heat. There might just be a positive advantage to running your metabolism fairly uncoupled in a very low temperature environment. Elevated FFAs are completely essential to uncoupling and heat generation. Limiting fatty acid removal from the cytoplasm to the mitochondria might be a facilitator of uncoupling. It’s FFAs on the cytosolic side of UCPs which facilitate proton translocation. Having a higher level of cytoplasmic FFAs at a given level of plasma FFAs might give an advantage over the normal level of uncoupling seen under near ketogenic diet conditions.
Fortunately, we have Dr. Eades to basically brush it all aside.
Well sure. When everything hinges on proclamations of “just basic biochemistry,” then everything’s a nail, as they say.
Whereas, there’s way, way more abnormal identifications that require integration (vs. “interpretation”) at that post. Like this from Peter, once again:
A Selective Sweep on a Deleterious Mutation in CPT1A in Arctic Populations
The paper itself is largely an account of the detective work involved in pinning down a specific mutation which has been positively selected for in a Siberian population living in the Arctic. The same mutation is also present in non related groups inhabiting the Arctic areas of northern America. The mutated gene is very common and frequently homozygous. It puts a leucine in the place of a proline in CPT-1a, the core enzyme for getting long chain fatty acids in to mitochondria. Putting a leucine where there should be a proline means the protein is basically f*cked. The mutation is linked, not surprisingly, to failure to generate ketones in infancy and can be associated with profound hypoglycaemia, potentially causing sudden death.
In his haste to brush up on his basic understanding of CPT1a, Eades seems to have only accounted for 70’s-era basic biochemistry—where all carnitine palmitoyltransferase were about the same. The thing is: they aren’t. In fact, they all do different things, and the Eskimos only had a deficiency in CPT1a. It’s what you call a basic critical distinction.
The mutation that causes a deficiency in the Mark 1, Mod A form is more prevalent along coastal regions where polyunsaturated fatty acid intake was high (i.e., seafood). The Eskimos were known to be strong, intelligent, and could generate their own heat (they felt warm to the touch). To be an autosomal recessive mutation, it must be highly selective, since it causes hypoketotic hypoglycemia: low blood ketones and low blood sugar. Which, in practical day-to-day living, means: difficulty fasting. Another basic critical distinction. For example, in Pic = 1,000 style: Mouse white adipocytes and 3T3-L1 cells display an anomalous pattern of carnitine palmitoyltransferase (CPT) I isoform expression during differentiation.
Notice how CPT1b is highly active in Brown Adipose Tissue (BAT)?
So, leaving basic biochemistry to Dr. Eades, how about we get into some speculative advanced shit? Keep in mind that it requires only that you can think, spot contradictions, syntheses, and integrations—connections. You don’t need a degree and you haven’t to have passed a test on a bunch of shit you had to memorize but never truly understood, integrated, or connected to actual observations. In that same comment thread, Eades spurns Googling. Well of course. All Gurus hate Google—except for themselves.
This is by no means exhaustive “Duck Dodgers.” Just basic bullets representing a bit of basic chewing on possible contradictions between basic biochemistry and what has been more recently discovered, enlightened, or understood, demanding integration and synthesis. We call this advanced biochemistry; or, basic thinking. It’s not exhaustive, just basically a culling of a bunch of emails with ideas Duck Dodgers collectively tosses around.
- Brown fat, where thermogenesis takes place, has CPT1b, not CPT1a.
- The Eskimo genetic mutation we’re dealing with here involves CPT1a, not CPT1b, or even CPT1c.
- CPT1a is primarily associated with liver cells
- CPT1b is primarily associated with brown fat, skeletal, and heart muscle cells
- CPT1c is primarily associated with brain cells.
- Infants in general have lots of brown fat. Eskimo infants are at the greatest mortality risk for the CPT1a mutation. Is FFA oxidation via CPT1b in brown fat what primarily gives them a chance vs. ketones, that aren’t produced as normal in the liver? Do Eskimo adults retain more brown fat than humans in temperate climes?
- Consider basic bears. Basically, they’re enormous mammals that live in frigid to fucking cold environments, such that there’s only enough food in late spring, summer and fall to feed them for an entire year. So they have adapted to hibernation for 6-7 months. They don’t do ketosis, even in a 7-month fast-hibernation.
- Bears and other hibernating mammals have lots of brown fat.
- Does the CPT1a mutation protect Eskimos from excess production of methylglyoxal that specifically targets mitochondria, and inhibits manganese superoxide dismutase, since FFAs aren’t getting into the liver to produce acetone, a precursor to methylglyoxal?
- How about CPT1a residual enzyme activity on cultured skin fibroblasts? Well, in people with a CPT1a deficiency, the residual activity is 1-5%, but in Inuit with the myopathic phenotype, the activity is 15-25%. All CPT1a abnormality is not created equal.
- Or…Brown Adipose Tissue (BAT) is a clue is a clue; thyroid is a clue; mitochondrial DNA is a clue; high N-3 PUFA matters. Gut flora? Rotten meat and blueberries? All that together?
There’s a lot more, but let’s jump to a couple of studies for basic fun.
A Selective Sweep on a Deleterious Mutation in CPT1A in Arctic Populations
Arctic populations live in an environment characterized by extreme cold and the absence of plant foods for much of the year and are likely to have undergone genetic adaptations to these environmental conditions in the time they have been living there. Genome-wide selection scans based on genotype data from native Siberians have previously highlighted a 3 Mb chromosome 11 region containing 79 protein-coding genes as the strongest candidates for positive selection in Northeast Siberians. However, it was not possible to determine which of the genes might be driving the selection signal. Here, using whole-genome high-coverage sequence data, we identified the most likely causative variant as a nonsynonymous G>A transition (rs80356779; c.1436C>T [p.Pro479Leu] on the reverse strand) in CPT1A, a key regulator of mitochondrial long-chain fatty-acid oxidation.
Remarkably, the derived allele is associated with hypoketotic hypoglycemia and high infant mortality yet occurs at high frequency in Canadian and Greenland Inuits and was also found at 68% frequency in our Northeast Siberian sample.
We provide evidence of one of the strongest selective sweeps reported in humans; this sweep has driven this variant to high frequency in circum-Arctic populations within the last 6–23 ka despite associated deleterious consequences, possibly as a result of the selective advantage it originally provided to either a high-fat diet or a cold environment.”
Shorter American Journal of Human Genetics: Ketosis is shit. Need something better, like brown fat. Wouldn’t it be deliciously ironic if, in the end, it turns out that the primary justification for the purported “magic” of ketogenic diets—the Eskimo—were genetically dumped from that ability thousands of years ago for various reasons? I adore iconoclasm above all else.
Only in error does one attain certainty. And only in the relentless pursuit of honestly integrated understanding does one attain error. — Me
Here’s something new, from January, 2015:
Highlights
- Adipose fatty acid oxidation (FAO) is required for cold-induced thermogenesis
- Adipose FAO is required for agonist-induced thermogenic gene expression
- Loss of adipose FAO does not alter body weight
- Adipose FAO is required for high-fat-induced oxidative stress and inflammation.
Summary
To understand the contribution of adipose tissue fatty acid oxidation to whole-body metabolism, we generated mice with an adipose-specific knockout of carnitine palmitoyltransferase 2 (CPT2A−/−), an obligate step in mitochondrial long-chain fatty acid oxidation. CPT2A−/− mice became hypothermic after an acute cold challenge, and CPT2A−/− brown adipose tissue (BAT) failed to upregulate thermogenic genes in response to agonist-induced stimulation. The adipose-specific loss of CPT2 resulted in diet-dependent changes in adiposity but did not result in changes in body weight on low- or high-fat diets. Additionally, CPT2A−/− mice had suppressed high-fat diet-induced oxidative stress and inflammation in visceral white adipose tissue (WAT); however, high-fat diet-induced glucose intolerance was not improved. These data show that fatty acid oxidation is required for cold-induced thermogenesis in BAT and high-fat diet-induced oxidative stress and inflammation in WAT.
It has a cool image too.
Notice how you don’t need CPT1a to generate body heat through thermogenesis? Lacking CPT1a preferentially shunts FAs to brown fat cells.
I ferociously enjoy all of this on a number of levels. First and foremost is that I’m integrating new understandings and insights with virtually every email exchanged between The Duck Dodgers. Second, I appreciate my role as the primary publisher of the distillation of an amazingly vibrant collaboration.
Our chief aim is always to get a bit more right by identifying and setting aside that which is obsolete, in spite of its Newtonian usefulness for its time. We don’t wait impatiently on asymptotes, but rather embrace their nature of getting ever closer.
As to Dr. Eades, well, I’ve just seen too much to be able to give him a pass and chalk it up to too busy, but trust me it’s basic. Just hours ago, this:
That was the first paper I read. Do you just have the abstract? The entire paper is filled with weasel words, which tells me that authors are speculating about everything. Which they ultimately end up saying.
I’ve seen it so many times since I first began reading him in 2007. There’s so many ways to unpack that, other than the way I used to do, which was to think “thanks Mike for showing me The Way, The Truth, and The Light.”
My path towards understanding how he always—100% of the time—has some fatal-flaw problem with studies that contradict low-carb dogma—while regularly adoring nonsense from Phinney, Volek***—and other papers that seem to only primarily reference Phinney and Volek—came courtesy of Anthony Colpo. See, I actually read The Fat Loss Bible, a book that goes into excruciating detail over every single metabolic ward study comparing different dietary regimes.
And guess what? There’s really not a dime’s worth of difference in terms of fat loss. It really is predominantly about CICO. It just is. I use the term predominantly rather than all, because I do think that real food that includes sane levels of fat and is low in refined forms of sugar helps one better eat an appropriate amount, and not too much too often.
And then I think back at the exchange of blog posts between the two and for the most part, Anthony is quoting studies (like The Duck Dodgers) while Dr. Eades dazzles with basic biochemical medical pathways, since none of the studies can be trusted.
And now it’s the same thing all over again, here.
To close by drawing an analogy, Eades’ methods parallel those of constitutional law. In our legal system, we begin with a constitution and three branches of federal government. Two of them are legislative, and one—the Supreme Court—is judiciary. So, two branches composed of politicians making laws, and the Supreme Court is supposed to make sure they pass muster with the constitution. Basic stuff.
Only, that’s not how it works. How it works is that politicians need to be elected and re-elected, and promissing the best and most bread & circuses is the prime means by which that’s accomplished. Members of the high court are also appointed by these politicians and the chief way a judge gets a look is in the record of decisions and opinions whereby the constitution gets “interpreted” in a way that makes politically motivated laws promising the best and most bread and circuses constitutional.
So, rather than just read and understand the plain English in which the constitution was written, it requires constant interpretation.
Now, note how very often Eades writes of the need to “interpret” various studies “properly.” What this means is that either they are by Phinney, Volek—or by someone primarily referencing them—and they’re constitutional, or, they’re not; and if in contradiction to the constitution, require dismissal or interpretation as needs arise. I’m more of a “common law” guy. Post it, see how it floats, go with it or drop it.
Essentially, what the LC community is up to is the establishment of echo-chambers similar to the low-fat, cholesterolphobes, and statin pushers.
*** For a current example, see in that comment thread where Eades touts all the marvelous athletic performance by athletes doing keto diets and specifically cites Phinney.
Phinney did all the early work on the ketogenic diet and athletic performance. I know him well and have had many discussions with him about it. And heard him speak on his early experiments numerous times. When he did this work, he was trying to disprove the Atkins diet. Didn’t turn out that way.
(Reminds me of the fundie born-agains telling me when I was a kid that “30 scientists set out to disprove the Bible and ended up accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.”)
Anthony Colpo just recently demolished that worthless bullshit study of Phinney’s once again. Dogma Destruction: Phinney’s Dodgey Ketogenic Cyclist Study Revisited.
As you know, I have not been following this very closely until very recently. So, if this is the first time you are acknowledging yourself (and your collaborators) as “Duck Dodgers”, I suppose I can take that as a small victory. :) I first suspected that this was the case early on in the comment postings when Duck offered to remove ‘you’ from the conversation and just deal with Dr. Eades on his own:
The fact that Duck could get you to excuse yourself so easily did not seem to jive with your ‘beholden to no man’ attitude about life. The only way I could resolve that in my mind was if you were the same person. This is why I was pressing so hard about the identity of “Duck Dodgers.” (That and to throw a little fallacy bullying back in your face.)
It is obvious that you are a smart guy who has a lot to offer the community. I thoroughly enjoyed your book (especially the Liquid Fat Bomb Smoothie Recipe) and in my own n=1 experiment, the diet advice you suggest seems to promote healthy body weights and blood glucose numbers.
It is a shame that you feel the need to alienate people like me who would love to follow and learn from you with personal attack comments and fallacy bullying. Must everyone chose sides? If we follow Dr. Eades and glean value from his posts and enjoy engaging with him in the comments, then ipso facto, we are the enemy and must be insulted into submission? My n=1 experiment with ketosis has yielded exactly the same weight and blood glucose control as the dieting advice that you suggest. So, people without the luxury of time to scour the internet countryside for evidence of this or that biological phenomenon are left with the guy claiming ketosis is the correct metabolic state for our bodies and the guy calling us fucktards who says we shouldn’t (or at least that there is not proper evidence to support that we should). As both diets seems perfectly healthful as far as I’m concerned, I’d just as soon not be called a fucktard.
As you have pointed out, this your blog. So, you can chose to post this or not. But, hopefully, you will still read it regardless.
Respectfully,
Chris Blackmon
(This and Christopher are the only names that I have ever posted under)
Chris,
It’s true. Duck Dodgers is not one person. Unlike some people, I’m impressed you noticed! :)
And to be quite honest, we are grateful that Richard has given us a chance to borrow his soapbox. And we are well aware that he is the Editor in Chief.
We are here to challenge and disrupt obsolete modes of thinking and hopefully elevate the level of discourse and understanding to a higher level. Sometimes we might fail, but that’s also how we learn.
Cheers
Chris:
Fist just think of me as the guy on stage who deals with hecklers in the audience in my own abrasive style. Doesn’t mean we can’t have a drink & smoke at the bar after.
Anyway, no, Duck is actually a real person and separate from me and all the others. He has access to his own private collaborators, as well we have our own group including him. Even I have no idea of his real identity, and I don’t ask because I don’t want to know. Might ruin it if I did.
This was about me making an “executive decision” to lump us all into one, as “The Duck Dodgers.” Hell, there’s a bunch of us tossing emails to each other all the time—like maybe 4-5 dozen yesterday alone until like 1am my time PST, until one of the German collaborators for whom it was morning told me to go to bed. Didn’t work. 1am last night was when I began drafting this post, and set it aside at 3am.
Anyway, I’m currently working on a tattoo design for The Duck Dodgers.
“Anyway, I’m currently working on a tattoo design for The Duck Dodgers.”
I look forward to seeing that.
Do you count Gemma as one of your fold?
As I have pointed out (the the point of obnoxiousness), the best way to do this in my opinion would be to make a clear argument (like the compound sentence that one of you wrote and I copied to Dr. Eades) and present it with evidence for Dr. Eades to refute. As a casual observer who enjoys both of these sites, I know that I would really enjoy that. I’m not interested in which one of you ‘wins’ or even if a victory ever occurs. I just want to learn what I can from the discussion along the way and extract a little entertainment from my web browsing that isn’t NSFW. :)
“Do you count Gemma as one of your fold?”
In my role as Press Secretary, I can neither confirm nor deny the identity, presence, or lack of presence of any member or non member.
We are The Duck Dodgers. Period.
“the best way to do this in my opinion would be to make a clear argument (like the compound sentence that one of you wrote and I copied to Dr. Eades) and present it with evidence for Dr. Eades to refute.”
[rolls eyes]
“As a casual observer…”
Quite.
@Christopher
You asked: “Do you count Gemma as one of your fold?”
What is The Duck Dodgers? It sounds like a football team, lol. Nothing for me.
I prefer tennis.
“and present it with evidence for Dr. Eades to refute ”
I was reluctant to boil down an entire race—and what we saw as their complex metabolism—into a single sentence so that Eades could simply wave his magic wand and falsify that statement with “basic” biochemistry. I think only a fool would do that.
I know you don’t appreciate the negative ad hominem criticisms on Stefansson, but from our perspective, the criticisms are a bit relevant when you only have one source. They don’t flat out discredit Stefansson, but they call his observations into question. We thought the documentary on Stefansson called into question the veracity of his observations. The documentary said, more than a few times, that he would say practically anything to get funding for his next trip or to promote his lectures, diet, books etc. That implied that his observations were tainted from a larger agenda. I think that shows in his writing. Per Wikholm’s LCHM Magazinet article on Stefansson was all about that, and it caused a shit storm in Sweden.
Rudolph M. Anderson, a zoologist and member of two of Stefansson’s expeditions, wrote, “Stefansson is the outstanding humbug in the exploration world at the present time—a persistent, perennial, and congenital liar who for years has made his living by sheer mendacity and skill in handling words.” It’s not a coincidence that Eades worships Stefansson. Eades literally thinks Stefansson’s “tell ’em lies” approach is the mark of a good businessman. He adores that kind of man. Eades is the high priest of the Church of Stefansson.
Furthermore, the problem with Eades’ “basic” biochemistry approach is that it oversimplifies a complex topic. He shows you how all the Eskimo FFAs they were consuming enter their mitochondria via “CPT” and dazzles you with the setup of how FFAs enter your liver cell mitochondria in ketosis. “It’s the same thing!” he tells the audience.
But because the conversation is so “basic” he doesn’t tell you that there’s an important difference between CPT1a, b and c. If most Eskimos have a highly prevalent autosomal recessive deficiency in CPT1a, but they have plenty of CPT1b and CPT1c, then they are preferentially shunting their FFAs away from their livers and into their brown fat (for thermogenesis), skeletal muscles, brain and testes. They were strong, intelligent, warm to the touch even when it was well below freezing out, and they were/are well known to snack constantly to avoid fasting.
So, when you provide a mountain of evidence to someone, and they dismiss all that evidence with scoffing one-liners, at the end of the day you have to realize that you are dealing with an extremist who has a sermon to deliver. It’s like the cult religious leader who tells his followers which books are safe to read, and which ones are evil and wrong. Only he knows.
You don’t provide a one line scientific statement to a high priest and ask them to falsify it. You’ll just get a magic show if you do.
Eades’ explanation in those comments of why the argument from authority fallacy is a fallacy itself was funny. He seems to think the statement of an expert derived from knowledge and experience is equivalent to an argument from authority.
Yes, if my mechanic provides advice on my car, I will accept he has more experience than I, and often take it as a statement based on experience from an expert. If I ask him the basis of his advice, or say that his opinion differs from what I’ve read elsewhere, and he replies “well I’m the mechanic with the experience, not you” then I will take my car elsewhere as I expect answers, not argument from authority responses.
Tennis over football!!?? That’s it. We’re in a fight. :)
Christopher, there is no ‘fold’.
Duckie is real and a singularly amazing person.
Eades is intellectually lazy. He’s an old fart and behaves like one. That’s all.
Applying what happens to metabolism when someone lives in centrally heated/air conditioned circumstances then assuming this applies to people who ‘live with the weather’ is a fool’s game.
@Duck
“You don’t provide a one line scientific statement to a high priest and ask them to falsify it. You’ll just get a magic show if you do.”
I don’t understand this position. If he’s wrong, then can’t you always bring it back home? ‘The Inuit were not in ketosis and here’s why’. Or, ‘That is a diversion from the point that the Inuit were not in ketosis’. Or, ‘You said a lot of fancy shit to confuse everyone and look smart, but I don’t see how this illustrates that the Inuit were not in ketosis’. Or, ‘You are mis-stating our claim that the Inuit were not in ketosis because of x, y and z…’
Having a concrete statement like that to always bring your point back to helps your cause, particularly if you are dealing with priests who dabble in magic. It protects you against logical fallacies (it also protects him if you commit them. So, gotta be on your game). It only helps him if he can prove that they were not in ketosis. And, isn’t that what you want him to do? Prove that he is right or acknowledge that he is not? You need a concrete argument for that to have any meaning.
Still disagree with me?
I’m sure Richard hates everything that I just said. But, the man did say 1st comment moderation. :)
@Gemma
It’s 1-0 me. I declared the fight.
“If he’s wrong, then can’t you always bring it back home?”
Well, you’re probably not aware, but he literally prevented us from “bringing it back home” an entire year ago. When he found himself backed into a corner, he suddenly became so “very busy.” What ended up happening next is that he began withholding any comments that presented opposing evidence. He censored them. There’s no other kind way to put it.
At first we gave him the benefit of the doubt, but then we noticed that even weeks or months later he approved more recent adoring comments, and snickered with his fans on Twitter, while the rest of us knew he was witholding comments that he couldn’t answer.
I can show you that there are comments that still haven’t been approved from months ago. Here’s FTA commenter, Bret, telling us back in July about a comment he posted that Eades withheld from being published. To this day, the comment still has not been published.
Jennifer Jones, who has a Ph.D. in biomolecular engineering, got in touch with Richard because Dr. Eades would not publish her comments either, an entire year ago. When asked why he never engaged her, Eades had no response. All the while Eades pretended that I was the only one making an argument against him.
It was only after a year, when he finally figured out a game plan that Eades allowed the conversation to begin again. How convenient. Suddenly the long list of evidence I presented refuting his sloppy claims was permitted to see the light of day, because he had finally figured out a way to dismiss it.
For the past year, no critical or opposing comments appeared on that site until he had a reply ready. Each and every comment is carefully moderated. If he doesn’t have an answer, he doesn’t publish the comment. God forbid that Dr. Eades should ever appear as though he’s stumped or wrong. And he almost never enters a debate outside of his own blog. It’s all done to control the conversation.
Mind you this all went down a year ago. And now you want me to give him with a one-liner, with the specific intention of letting him falsify it? Give me a break.
The first thing he’ll do after he “falsifies” it is say he’s wasted enough time on the subject and claim he’s too busy to discuss it any further, since nobody understands “basic biochemistry” like he does. Each comment posted on his blog will be screened and withheld until he knows he can knock it down or write it off by appealing to his own authority.
We’re talking about someone who continuously defends his position with logical fallacies, bullying, ridicule and condescension. He has a playbook and we already know quite well how it works. Smoke and mirrors.
Even if you, or anyone else, presented the very evidence that refutes his claim, he would scoff and reply, “Nice Try.” Exactly like he did here—dismissive even to a full-time scientist with biology degrees from both Oxford and Cambridge.
It should be clear by now that he has no intention of actually taking the time to discuss the science. This whole charade is being carefully engineered to perform to his adoring fans and to protect his brand.
He’s not having a debate. He’s just having a sideshow.
This is exactly correct. There is absolutely no amount of evidence that will ever cause him to change his policy.
I knew this going in that he would never ever conceded a single point, no matter what. He never has before. Look back at the posts between he and Colpo. Same thing.
@Duck
To be clear, I do not want you to do anything. I am not demanding that you do it, or else. I was suggesting (and this is nothing more than my opinion) that it carries more weight this way. It was not my intention to suggest anything other than this.
I’ll be staying tuned…
Yeah, I figured you weren’t demanding. I just wanted to let you know why we never actually believed that he was having a real “debate” with us.
Do keep track of how many studies/papers/evidence he ends up dismissing with his own authority and declarations that apparently don’t warrant the production solid evidence.
I will be watching you both for things like this. :) I am always on the prowl for BS and the ingenious ways that people (especially politicians) spin it. I can’t listen to news for 10 fucking seconds without screaming at the radio over the ridiculous bullshit I hear every single day.
@Christopher
Where is your ball? Have you played any? :-)
Based on my previous comment it’s actually 15-0 for me.
@Gemma
15? About football and tennis?
That should be a penalty for not even knowing what we’re fighting about. No need for negative points though. Still 1-0 me. :)
@Christopher
lol, tell me why you are on ketogenic diet and then we can agree what game we play.
(I said tennnis, did you hear?)
@Gemma
“lol, tell me why you are on ketogenic diet and then we can agree what game we play.”
Uh, because Dr. Eades told me to? No good?
(I will formulate a more accurate reply once I am done at work. )
(Just no idea where 15 points would’ve come from. Certainly not this fight. I mean, it’s obvious to even casual observers that I’m dominating this.)
“Just no idea where 15 points would’ve come from”
Love.
;)
Another clue: l’oeuf
“Another clue: l’oeuf”
Lol. That one took some research to figure out. Nice.
@Christopher
“Just no idea where 15 points would’ve come from.”
Come on. That’s how scoring in tennis works: “love”, “fifteen”, “thirty”, and “forty” :-)
Oh, Richard answered before me.
You see, Christopher, what happens when you are the one declaring we are in a fight? You miss the love and I get my fifteen.
Lol. I have no idea how tennis is scored. Clearly, I lack context.
But, that’s not the point. The point is, uh, football. Right. Football is better Tennis. All these fancy tennis words; That’s why we’re in a fight.
“I have no idea how tennis is scored.”
30 – 0
“The point is, uh, football. Right.”
So that makes it 7-0. One more touchdown (and extra point—but she’s a good kicker I can tell you), it’ll be 14-0.
Distinction without much difference. :)
“30 – 0”
14-0 in football.
I think that fact that you declared the points in tennis units when I called the fight is a bit presumptuous. That qualifies me for a field goal at the very least.
That should put me at 14-3 you.
“You see, Christopher, what happens when you are the one declaring we are in a fight? You miss the love and I get my fifteen.”
Lol. Touché.
@Christopher
14-3 ???
I am afraid this, and the very fact that you dared to call the fight and didn’t even ask if I am willing shall be punished with a topspin lob.
40 – 0
Oh, my racquet got damaged…. I am taking a break and you can compose your ketosis story in the meantime.
@Gemma
“I am taking a break and you can compose your ketosis story in the meantime.”
I am not dodging your question about ketosis. There is just a big difference between 30 seconds here and there while at work and taking away a whole 1-2 hours to write a proper response. I realize that in the context of this Dr. Eades debate, that you (and all) may be a little more sensitive to being dodged, but that is not what is happening here. Because I had time to pop off (and display my ignorance) about tennis does not suggest that I had time while at work to respond properly instead of said pop offs. And, now that I am off work and as promised, consider what follows to be a response to your question (if this is not what you meant by that statement, then disregard this paragraph and read on anyway):
“lol, tell me why you are on ketogenic diet and then we can agree what game we play.”
I actually would characterize my eating as more of a constant experimentation than any one particular diet. As I type this sentence, I am in ketosis. But, as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago, I was trying to follow the Perfect Health Diet. I tried this one about 6 months ago as well, right after reading the Drs. Jaminet book. I think it is most likely a problem of my own making. But, I have found that I keep dipping in and out of ketosis on that diet. I keep trying to adjust my starch intake upwards to avoid it and then overdo it and gain a bunch of weight for two weeks. And, then I adjust it down and start feeling like crap as I re-adjust to ketosis again. I can’t seem to find the happy medium that so many others have found with it. It is also possible that I am not getting all of my nutrients on this diet as well, owing to both the fact that I don’t like vegetables very much and some pretty severe (at least what I consider to be severe) IBS that I will get to shortly. I don’t *think* that this last part is the problem, but maybe. I also really like the fact that I can just fast for long periods of time on it. If I want to lose a few pounds, I just fast for a day and it comes off. And, the hunger is barely noticeable. This is also very helpful at work as I often can’t get away for a sustained period of time to eat anything. It is also a gigantic pain in the ass, however. It’s a good thing that I can fast for long periods, because I pretty much have to pack a lunch everywhere I go or just don’t eat. And, most of that food needs to be refrigerated, making that even more of a hassle. And, if I do slip up and get out of it, I feel like crap while I wait to re-enter it.
I find all of this ketosis dialog amusing in the context of Dr. Eades because he is not where I first heard about it or anyone that I ever considered to be a huge advocate for it. I first learned about ketosis from Peter Attia. Despite all the talk about Eades and Phinney on this subject, I consider Peter Attia’s site to be the bible for ketosis. I have actually found way more interesting and useful information about ketosis there than from Dr. Eades’ blog or either of Phinney’s books, in my humble opinion. And, the idea seemed intriguing. So, I gave it a try and experienced many of the benefits everyone claims. But, I am always experimenting. Anything new that I read, I like to give it a try and see what I learn or how good it makes me feel, etc. And, as I said before, I find it difficult to always be packing my lunch, if you will.
I find this whole situation with Dr. Eades even more amusing as the book of his that I read, Protein Power, I would consider to be a high protein diet much more than a high fat diet, much more similar to the diet you all on this site are affirming was the Inuit diet. To be clear, Dr. Eades addressed this (apparent) contradiction in this post. If I remember the contents of the post correctly, he was pressured by publishers at the time of the writing of Protein Power and has also since adjusted his thinking due to new information that he has learned. Be all that as it may, when I was trying to follow this diet plan, I was eating a large amount of protein (over 150-250g per day) and was almost certainly not in ketosis.
Some nagging problems have followed me through all of these diet adventures:
1. Some truly epic heartburn.
2. Some truly epic IBS.
3. A general lack of energy.
4. Horrific sleep patterns.
All of these are at their bests when I am in ketosis, but still shitty (no pun intended). While I am still having issues with any/all of these, I continue to experiment to find a dietary solution. I went to see a doctor about the IBS a few years ago. He sat behind a computer looking at screen that I could not see and read the exact solutions that I had read on WebMD earlier that week (they were even in the same order). Eating more whole grains was on the list, of course, which I dutifully did. Only to have the problem magnify itself in intensity and frequency. When I told the good doctor about this reaction, he recommended the one remaining thing on the WebMD list that he had not mentioned before: anti-depressants. I told him that I was not going to take an anit-depressant for IBS and he found a polite way to say that he can’t help me. (he did request a stool sample that I never did. But given how ridiculous the first two visits had been, I could find no reason to continue to pay the man.)
I have been following Tom Naughton ever since I saw Fat Head on Netflix about 5 years ago and was very intrigued when this post about RS came up. Fixing my fucked up gut bugs really seemed like it could be a solution to my problems. Except, it wasn’t. The potato starch causes so much extra gas and bloating to add to the pressure of my aforementioned maladies, to make my day even more exciting. I did some more reading on this and found that it often happens that in a fucked up gut biome, the addition of RS will just make things worse and I need to get that shit repopulated with some good bacterias and the like. So, I bought this and this and this and even this and this, all of which did exactly dick (and weren’t cheap). I made my potatoes and cooled them. I took a couple of tablespoons of potato starch with some water to help feed my new baby gut bugs. And, nothing. If anything, due to the increase in overall food volume and the extra gas I have already mentioned, it ranges from mildly worse to substantially worse.
As Richard and many others that regularly follow and post on this site were interviewed by Tom on his site about this very topic, I am happy entertain any criticisms, additional reading, etc. on how I have not been able to make RS work for me. But, as it stands right now, I feel that I am picking the lesser of the evils….
And there is my extremely long-winded answer to your question with a healthy dose of TMI just for good measure. Noone on this site should feel obligated to ‘help’ me or to correct any of my thinking. But, you are also more than welcome to do so. But, if not, I will just get back to talking about tennis, logical fallacies or whatever else comes up. :)
Sorry to hear about that Christopher. If there’s one piece of advice that I can give you, and it’s rather speculatory… It’s something that Paul Jaminet once said in this podcast episode. Please listen to it (or read the transcript) if you haven’t already. Basically you can use your experiences you just described as a diagnostic tool.
If you feel better on a ketogenic diet, that can give you clues as to what kind of pathogen you might have. Bacteria and viruses can’t metabolize ketones, and the increased (therapeutic?) methylglyoxal can kill them in the blood too.
But if you feel worse on a ketogenic diet, you may have a fungal, or protozoal infection, as those pathogens have mitochondria and can metabolize ketones in the blood.
Hope that makes sense, but the episode really gives a unique perspective on the nuances of how you can use your diet to diagnose yourself and figure out what class of pathogen you have and where it might be located. It helped me tremendously and I’ll always be grateful for Paul’s diagnostic cheat sheet that he explained in that episode.
Cheers.
@Christopher
I really appreciate you took time to answer. Jokes aside, this is about your health and I am listening. No need to apologize for any TMI, there are much, much worse stories around.
Now, may I ask a couple of questions? When was the last time you felt really good and healthy (no digestive problems, good sleep, a lot of energy)? And what triggered your symptoms first time? And, what exactly do you eat, when you eat? And, when you say ketosis do you mean that high fat cheating version or purely natural hunger, when you use your own fat supply? And, why don’t you like vegetables? Didn’t your mom tell you to eat them, because they are healthy? You should have listened to her, moms are usually right. Upgraded version is fermented vegetables, I think a must for you.
Your yo-yo eating pattern is no good, the cells of your body are listening, the gut flora is listening, and if they don’t like such a treatment, they are forced to react. When they are starved and hungry, they up-regulate survival pathways and have them ready, just in case it happens to them again. They in fact remember all that. It’s called hysteresis, a cool, ancient process (google that!). And when gut flora is hungry, it can easily be the reason of your disturbed sleep: bugs get angry and wake you up in the night: get us (and yourself) some food! And when the food finally comes, the first thing the gut flora does is shifting it to the storage, for later. Just in case.
Listen to Duck’s advice, it’s a good one. Both Chris Kresser and Paul Jaminet follow new research and integrate new knowledge into their approach. Jaminet mentions fungi, they are special, not that many in species number comparing to bacteria in our guts, also not that many when you count individual cells, but they can easily outnumber bacteria by mass. No fun. But we definitely do not want to kill them al in case they become pathogens, all we want is that they live their happy planktonic live and help us to digest food etc.
Anyway, let’s check what Dr. Eades’ site says about “gut flora” or “microbiota”. Oops, something must be wrong. “Sorry, no posts matched your criteria.” He really should have the site fixed, the search engine does not work well. I hope his IT team can look at it soon. It’s 2015, it can’t be that a page devoted to “nutritional science” would ignore that completely.
I’d suggest eliminating gluten and nightshades for a few weeks, and then adding one at a time back after a fast. That should tell you fairly quickly if that food bothers you. I figured out that gluten and nightshades cause all the symptoms your listed, at least for my N=1.
And I’m grateful to Richard and Tim for their posts on resistant starch. Though for me, the vivid dreams everyone loves to have are WAY amped up for me, and carbs cause them too. So I do my beans and tubers early in the day, nothing starchy after about 4pm. That helped my sleep more than anything.
Tim suggested ThreeLac as a probiotic, and that lets me eat potatoes without the usual doodie issues. Not sure why, but glad I can sneak them from time to time now. Still experimenting with that, haven’t tried tomatoes yet but will soon.
Do some more experimentation and post your results. Good luck!
Charlie, you might consider being checked for parasites as well, especially if you travel.
I don’t have weight problems, and generally have been able to eat anything.
A little over a year ago I moved from Michoacan to Mexico City, and suddenly lost a lot of energy, started getting colds really often and also had diarrhea frequently, which was unusual.
I tried everything I could think of to change my situation, but it stayed the same.
Finally I went to a chinese herbalist here in the city.
He diagnosed a type of Giardia. He gave me a single non-chemical treatment, and oila. A years worth of symptoms gone.
Not saying it is your situation, but sometimes it can go overlooked. YMMV but good luck.
Sorry, I meant Chris, Charlie Blackmon is a ball player. I have the fantasy draft on my mind.
@Duck
Thanks for the suggestion. I have downloaded it and will listen in the next couple of days when I am in the car.
I’ll let you know.
@Gemma
Lol. So many questions. :)
I appreciate you taking the time though. Very much. If you happen to figure this out, you and me are best friends. :)
The heartburn has been a problem for for all of my adult life. The IBS and sleep issues started about 6-7 years ago when I went on Weight Watchers (I used to be about 60 pounds heavier than I am now) I can’t pinpoint an exact event that took place or anything. But, it was for sure during this time. My guess is that my increased grain consumption during this time screwed something up? But, I really have no idea.
I assume that you are asking about what I eat right now? I eat a lot of meat (beef, salmon, pork, chicken), fat (coconut oil, olive oil, avacado oil, butter, cream), this pancake mix with tons of butter, a vegetable stir fry recipe that I found in Practical Paleo, lots of eggs, mixed nuts from Costco (cashews, almonds, pecans, etc. not peanuts) berries and the occasional apple or banana, broccoli and caesar salad when I go out to eat steak, lots of full fat greek yogurt (unsweetened), cheese, homemade ice cream and other full fat diary, an occasional half potato or small order of rice if I can get enough fat on it to keep ketosis around, and an occasional piece of unsweetened chocolate. Every single item on the above list I have eliminated completely from my diet at one time or another in the last 5 years in an effort to track down an allergy or whatever.
Right now, most days (except Saturday) I am only eating once a day. One thing that I have found (and you hinted to) is the fact that you can’t just eat all day even if it is only fat and still feel good and lose weight. This was a major stumbling area for me in the beginning. I wouldn’t say that anyone said this exactly, but it is kind of implied with how the ketogenic folks talk about the diet.
As I am currently losing weight, but still eating a lot of food in my single meal per day, I would say both? I am not counting calories or anything. But, I would put the amount of food at somewhere around 2000-2500 calories. I am also losing about 2 pounds a week for the last month or so. So, there is some fat supply in there as well. As I type this I realize how strange my eating habits sound, but all of my maladies were with me even when I wasn’t a ketosis whack job.
I do eat some of them. Just not as many as I should. And, my mother did not stress vegetables too much. Should would probably still tell you that corn is a vegetable. That and the occasional pea or green bean is all I remember eating as kid as far as vegetables are concerned. But, you are right, of course. I am trying to work them into my diet more, if I can find a way to make them palatable.
I remember a few references to this in the Perfect Health Diet. I have still not tried it. Should I just go to their website and follow their instructions?
Agreed on this point as well. I have read about hysteresis (usually in reference to yo-yo dieting). The only response that I can give is that I have a problem that I am trying to resolve and I don’t know what else to do but change things I eat and see what happens. If you have an suggestion for a better approach, I am listening. :)
Yes. I will be listening to it tonight while in the car. Everything I have read from Paul Jaminet has always made a lot of sense to me. As yet, I have just been unable to make it work for me. I will reply with my thoughts, etc.
Lol. I know. I have already performed that search myself about a year ago. In the giant comment thread on his site right now, someone has already requested that. As I really need his approval before moving forward, this is a real problem for me. ;) In the mean time, I will try and work with Paul Jaminet. Ha ha.
@Hegemon
Gluten has been out of my diet for years. And, up until about a year ago, so were all nightshades. I have read many people saying the same thing, so these were things I tried a long time ago.
I have found that I sleep much worse if I eat later in the day. My one meal per day is usually around lunch time. This helped my sleep a lot. But, I am still up 4-5 or sometimes even 10 times a night. I never sleep more than 2 hours without waking. I do have some pretty awesome dreams that I remember a lot since I am up all effing night. These started around the time I started ketosis.
TreeLac? Would this be an accurate link? I can give it a try.
@Beans McGrady
The only time I have been out of the country is to Cananda in 2010 and I had these problems back then as I distinctly remember that drive from Salt Lake City to Vancouver as absolute torture (my car lacks restroom facilities).
But, I am sure there are plenty of ways to get yourself infected with god knows what in Salt Lake City as well. I am not even sure where to start with finding a Chinese herbalist..
@Chris,
bone broth + veg soup
i don’t like vegetable either esp. broccoli & cauliflower. i also hate salad (rabbit food)
stay healthy
“I am not even sure where to start with finding a Chinese herbalist.”
Well, you don’t need necessarily to find a Chinese herbalist to get help. The Alliance for Natural Health has a list of Integrative Medicine practitioner searches. Unlike mainstream doctors who will mostly rely on ineffective pharmaceuticals, an Integrative Medicine practitioner will actually take the time to try to figure out what your underlying condition is. The first time I went to one they sat down for about two hours going over my entire medical history. It was kinda awesome to get that kind of attention. My digestive issues are now a distant memory.
Another trick is to go to an herbal/compounding pharmacy and ask the head pharmacist who the best doc or practitioner would be for your digestive issues. Tell them you want a real gut detective. The pharmacists know who the best integrative docs are. They’ll run the proper tests (stool, organic acids, etc) and figure out what antibodies are showing up, and put together clues to figure it all out.
Whether you realize it or not, you already have big clues from your diet experiences. You just need someone with expertise in diagnostics and thorough integrative medicine to interpret them. Good luck.
@Chris
I used to have the same 4 problems that you listed above. Plus more. But I remember very well organizing my life around the bathroom. It sucked. I love chile peppers, but they would have explosive consequences. Vegetable skins, mushrooms, beans, etc. were similar. I drove quite a lot 7-12 hours, and I was miserable during and after. I had to teach large classes, and being nervous gave me runs before and during (breaks were a dash to the restroom). Sleep problems, low energy. I had it.
It’s all gone now. I’ve also fixed two dogs with colitis issues using the same regimen.
I cannot speak to the pathogen issues that Duck and Gemma know much better.
One thing that strikes me, however, is that you seem to rely on RS as a source of gut food. In my own personal opinion, RS is like candy for the bugs. A fast supply of food, but short-lived. I’ve read that one have gas distress with short-lived prebiotics (others include short-chain inulin, sometimes labeled FOS). And with a diet largely devoid of vegetables, you are not getting the longer-lived food for the bugs that would feed them in a more complex manner. RS is good, but IMHO, it is a small part of a much bigger picture.
Have you considered using a wider variety of prebiotics? I think inulin should be a top priority. There are others. Psyllium husk and flaxseed powder. Guar gum. Cellulose. I have a list a mile long. These are no substitute for real veggies, but I’ve got to think they are better than RS by itself. My philosophy is that these are a great addition to real veggies, but baby steps…
I agree with Gemma about fermented veggies. Lots of health food stores have raw sauerkraut. If you have a Korean store, they might have homemade kimchi. Even if you hate it, consistency is probably better than quantity. A quarter cup 3-4 times per week will probably do a lot of good.
I didn’t necessarily mean go to a Chinese herbalist. Incidentally my guy is from Chicago. (funny to connect with him in Mexico City)
Just something to consider checking, if you have tried everything else.
@Christopher
It would be the best indeed if you could find a integrative medicine practitioner to help you out, as Duck suggests, because so far your approach has been a personal trial and error only, and picking whatever advice suited you, and nothing seems to help.
And the question also is who or what was guiding your decisions: your deep “you”, or some microbes manipulating your mind and telling you what to eat and what not? Is there a pathogen(s) preventing any improvement? A food that you should (hopefully temporarily eliminate)? Etc. Or do you need a stronger herbal support? Someone looking at your health markers and experienced reading metabolic data and interpret the tests (fecal sample, organic acids etc). would be really very helpful in your situation.
“If you happen to figure this out, you and me are best friends”
lol, you will regret saying this because I am going to be very cruel in this comment, even though it will include only some tips and not the whole plan solving your situation. Just some tips, I hope it is clear to you. So, in case you decide to change your approach right now, on your own, here my points:
First, what if all those gurus you mention are plain wrong? Horribly wrong? Forget Attia, I know he is a nice guy, but bibles in general are not healthy. And ketosis bible sounds pretty horrible. So, forget your high fat diet, OK?
Second, great to see Wilbur here (hi!), listen to him. He should have stressed that he really eats A LOT of of plants. You, on the opposite eat a lot of meat and fat at the moment, and no complex polysaccharides. That means your gut flora is very efficient at breaking meat and fat mainly. Guess what it eats when there is no food around? Yes, you, And your tryptophan as well. Hence no melatonin to put you to sleep and get a rest at night. Speaking of melatonin, what about putting the sunglasses off? Sunshine is healthy. Can you get some in the morning, some at midday at least? And no blue light before bed.
Back to your microbes. Give them something else to chew on, and they let you be, and even do somethiung useful for you, in case you feed the right food to the right community of microbes equipped with the right genes. Get the genes in, get the food in. Best together, that’s why the fermented veggies. Start slowly with the plant feeding. Vegetable soup is a good way. Ditto fermented foods – start with a very low dose, but be consistent.
Third, what else could you change? Let me tell you you really should eat some breakfast. Did Wilbur say inulin? That means some onions, and garlic. What about together with your eggs? Have some potatoes or mushrooms or breakfast too. While you are waiting 10 minutes for your crushed garlic to develop active compounds (only then mix it with your whipped eggs, together with some turmeric powder), you can do some push-ups. How many can you do in a row, anyway? Do them NOW and report back.
What else? A sweet drink before bed? A glass of warm milk with two teaspoons of the best honey you can find, every day? An old remedy for children that cannot sleep :-)
And yes, potato starch can fill the missing portion of fermentable fiber within the context of a healthy diet in some people, which is not your case. You eat a very low fiber diet. Change it.
Hi Gemma!
@Chris. Gemma is right that I do eat lots of vegetables. I used to not. Now I feel compelled to.
But I eat meat and all that too. The very fatty cuts like rib eyes (my butcher makes them fatty, they are lean in restaurants), short ribs, shanks, feet, fish skin, shoulder, etc. I eat the fat. BUT that’s just a few ounces per day. Our family of 3 eats less than a pound of meat on an average day. I eat two eggs and 1.5 ounces of cheese most days. Aside from fish oil supplements, that’s most of my fat. The rest are vegetables and fruits.
My point is not that you should eat like me, but that I ate like you when I was sick, except that I didn’t worry about ketosis. As I got well, I started wanting to eat like I do now. I got well by making a concerted effort to feed my gut bugs with quality food. I started feeding both of us.
Gemma’s point about gut bugs having preferential food is important. A study showed that people who eat lots of sugar have bugs that create cravings for those sugars. The gut bugs shift when a diet consists of mainly one type of food. You’ve got a gut that prefers meat. Don’t suddenly go starving it or you’ll most likely be miserable. But give it good food, like inulin. Give your intestines something to grab onto, like cellulose, psyllium, flaxseed. Vegetables are best, but you know that. Work with supplements if you can handle the veggies.
Oops, use supplements if you can’t handle the veggies.
I was never a fan of vegetables, until I had a change of perspective. I find that it helps to think of vegetables as actually being bad for you, and that’s why they are really good for you. ;)
It’s funny because the Inuit and Masai would eat toxic compounds with their meat. The Inuit drank a lot of poisonous Labrador Tea and the Masai consumed Acacia nilotica bark soups/extracts with their meat (though the Masai ate a ton of honey and milk too). Acacia nilotica has a fair amount of toxic saponins and tannins. So these cultures were likely up-regulating their bodies with a hormetic response, in the same way we might expect from eating vegetables. Vegetables have a lot of toxic compounds, because they don’t like being eaten by pathogens. So, in some ways, vegetables are really bad for you, and that’s probably why they are so good for you.
Vegetables aren’t just good for fiber. Many have anti-fungal, anti-microbial and anti-parasitic a compounds and they upregulate our hormetic responses too!
@Duck
I have listened to the podcast and the part about a fungal infection sounds interesting. Even when I have tried the PHD, I think I still do so as decidedly high fat (as is evident by the fact that I seem to keep dipping in and out of ketosis). Assuming that this is the case, how would I find out? That part was not totally clear to me? Should I just eat nothing but fruit, veggies and rice for a few days and see if it goes away or something?
And, I will check out the site. Thanks. You all have given me too much to do. I am working on Gemma’s suggestions at the moment.
@Gemma
As I can draw no distinctions between me and my microbes, uh, who the hell knows? :) I will try the fermented vegetables (don’t know why I didn’t just do this the first time that I read about it) and lower my fat a bit and include some fruit in the mornings. I’ll let you know.
“lol, you will regret saying this because I am going to be very cruel in this comment, ”
Lol. You have said nothing offensive or cruel. Did you mean it to be cruel? Are we still in a fight?
Ok. What if they are? I still fee like crap a lot of the time. So someone is full of shit, obviously. :) Should I give PHD another go? I am happy to give it another try. I thought that I had made clear (although apparently not) that the only reason I am doing this right now is because it seems to help the most with my issues. As far as Attia and my reference to the Bible, I am simply saying that if ketosis is your bag, check out his site. Just like if being Christian is your bag, you should check out the Bible. (And, just to be fair, even he is not in ketosis full time as he details here.) Dr. Attia would be the first to tell anyone that if you are not feeling well on your diet, something is wrong and that how he eats is not necessarily how everyone should eat. Nothing you are saying is in contradiction with him as far as I know. But, I can purge what I have read on his site if you think it will be helpful. I’m game.
“How many can you do in a row, anyway? Do them NOW and report back.”
14. (woot! twice as many as I thought, actually. ha ha) In the summer, I mountain bike 2-3 times a week. This is mountain country, so this activity has me at max heart rate (and slow cadence) for about half the time (usually about 1.5 – 2 hours). I am also outside in the sun during this time to speak to your other point. In the winter, however, your assumptions are correct.
“Guess what it eats when there is no food around? Yes, you, And your tryptophan as well. Hence no melatonin to put you to sleep and get a rest at night.”
This is an interesting thought. I have never heard that. I think you are right as the sleep trouble started when I started eating high fat, I think. It’s been a while.
I also take a melatonin pill before bed. It helps a little.
“You eat a very low fiber diet. Change it”
Alright. PHD? Is that what we are talking about here? I will also add though, that fiber has not been my friend in the past. Every time I increase it, I spend the whole day in the bathroom and the next day constipated. You are saying here to start slow though. Which I can do and report back.
@Wilbur
“Have you considered using a wider variety of prebiotics?”
No. I have not. I do cook the vegetable stir fry that I mentioned earlier with crushed garlic though. I also love onions. But, I don’t eat a lot of them. Those will be a joy add to stuff. :)
I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and help even if I haven’t responded specifically. I will let you know what I find. :)
“As I can draw no distinctions between me and my microbes, uh, who the hell knows? :) I will try the fermented vegetables (don’t know why I didn’t just do this the first time that I read about it) and lower my fat a bit and include some fruit in the mornings. I’ll let you know.”
I’d go real heavy on fruit to start, especially apples. Fruit is evolutionarily designed to “want” to be eaten, vs. vegetables, so they don’t have much or any “anti-nutrients.” Vegetables and legumes are intermediate and advanced stuff, but at least after a few weeks, your gut is going to adjust to the fact that you don’t just give it almost only meat and fat.
So, ramp it up in stages. Expect so get some runny shits along the way. It’s actually pretty normal with lots of significant dietary changes, as gut bugs take time to dig new trenches and ramp up chemical warfare.
…Funny, LCers make fun of all this, and the fact is, some of them even have a tough time taking a shit in the first place.
@Richard
Any particular time of day with the fruit, or just when I’m hungry?
And, I am an expert at dealing with the shits. I can tell you where available facilities are on just about every major corridor in Utah.
Yes. It is something I read about with every diet, probably the number one complaint for ketogenic dieters. It all makes sense in theory. I want it to make sense in practice for exactly one person.
“I have listened to the podcast and the part about a fungal infection sounds interesting. Even when I have tried the PHD, I think I still do so as decidedly high fat (as is evident by the fact that I seem to keep dipping in and out of ketosis). Assuming that this is the case, how would I find out? That part was not totally clear to me?”
Well, as you heard, Jaminet suggests that ketogenic diets tend to promote fungal infections, since yeasts/candida are eukaryotes with mitochondria and have the ability to adapt to metabolizing ketones. But, he also said that bacteria and viruses can’t metabolize ketones. So, when you put those clues together, a ketogenic diet can be therapeutic for a bacterial/viral infection, but the risk is that it may promote a fungal infection. There are other mechanisms that can add to these tendencies, but that’s the simple version.
Anyhow, I think you misunderstood. What Jaminet was saying is that if you felt worse on a ketogenic diet, you probably have a fungal infection. But that’s not your experience… You feel better on a ketogenic diet. So…
…The fact that you feel better on a ketogenic diet *may* suggest that you have a bacterial or viral infection somewhere in your body. It’s just a clue. When you go into ketosis, and you eat a lot of fat, and you generate ketones—so, there’s nothing to feed the bacteria or virus. They can’t eat the fat and they can’t metabolize the ketones. Furthermore, we’ve speculated here that the ketogenic diets seem to promote plasma (therapeutic) methylglyoxal levels to increase, and methylglyoxal has antimicrobial properties. So, in effect, we’ve speculated here that long term ketosis as a useful “drug” for some people. (I admit it’s all very speculatory, but it would explain a lot).
This is *probably* why you feel better in ketosis. The pathogen starves and if it’s systemic is perhaps poisoned by plasma methylglyoxal when you are in ketosis. But the rest of your microbiome is also starved too. So, given all this, I would *speculate* that your problem may not be fungal. More likely, it may be bacterial or viral in nature. But it’s just a speculation.
And here’s the kicker. Your microbiome is responsible for synthesizing your neurotransmitters, like GABA, which helps you fall asleep at night. (I only know this because the same thing happened to me, two years ago, and I figured it out). Until you can get your microbiome creating sufficient levels of GABA again, you can go to any pharmacy and buy GABA. Basically you can make your own in your gut or pay a company to synthesize it from bacteria. Either way, it’s the same end result. It’s extremely safe (it’s an amino acid), it’s non-addictive and has no side effects as far as I know. Talk to your pharmacist for details. You take it before going to bed and you fall asleep. Some GABA sleep products combine GABA with L-Theanine, which I highly recommend. As you re-build your GABA-producing microbiome, over many months, you just taper down your dose to nothing very slowly. Problem solved, and no more insomnia. GABA can be taken during the day if you feel anxious as well. Not everyone responds to oral GABA (it doesn’t cross everyone’s blood-brain barrier), but if you do respond, it works very quickly.
Anyhow, I’ve given you too much information. To confirm your pathogens you will likely need to work with a practitioner who understands this stuff. The benefit of working with a practitioner is that they can figure out exactly what your pathogen(s) is and recommend the right herbal tinctures or foods that will get you on your way faster. However, you may make good progress on your own by eating right. The body can fix itself given the right circumstances and the proper food.
“Should I just eat nothing but fruit, veggies and rice for a few days and see if it goes away or something?”
Tough call. Personally, I’m not sure I would go zero to sixty so quickly. Your body may need to ease into your new regimen. Listen to Wilbur and Gemma (and others). Most people here have healed their own pathogens. But just know that these things take weeks to see results and months to resolve. It doesn’t happen overnight.
We are here to give you clues but of course nothing we say should be construed as medical advice. It’s best to work with a practitioner who can run tests that look for antigens/antibodies/imbalances in your blood/urine/stools, etc and put all the clues together.
And when I say that a ketogenic diet is :therapeutic,” I don’t necessarily mean that it’s a good long term solution, or a cure. I just mean it’s a clue. Personally I’d rather fix the problem than manage it, and I *think* that a ketogenic diet is just a way to manage a problem (not necessarily cure it).
Modulating your gut to become more robust, by feeding it the fibers that encourage to bloom commensal bacteria, can cause a significant shift that moves towards curing the problem. If things go as planned, your gut normalizes it acidity and this typically causes most pathogens to die and commensals to bloom. At least that’s the end goal.
I’d just say ramp up fruit. If there’s any upset, see it out for reasonable time, hopefully no more than a couple of weeks. When that settles out, you already know how to introduce veggies and legumes.
Best to keep alcohol very minimal, because that can both help and hurt the shits. It’s confounding.
I don’t have much to add to Duck’s advice. But I share his concern about changing too much too quickly. My recollection from when I changed my own life was that I was adding to rather than reducing. I didn’t reduce things I was already doing in my diet – I simply added gut food (veggies and prebiotics) to my normal diet. The reducing was a consequence of desire rather than a sacrifice. But as Duck says, it was something that took time. My “normal diet” changed all by itself.
Eat the whole friggin’ apple. Have a pile of seeds and a stem when you are done. Eat the seeds, depending on your views (I eat some). Then eat the stem. Seriously. Chew it well to break it down for the bugs. My wife finds it funny that there is nothing left after I eat an apple.
Dried Turkish figs and dried apricots are awesome too. I like them better than apples. YMMV
Eat when you want. Often it will be your gut bugs wanting food.
I don’t normally become involved in cases like yours because I don’t know a lot about pathogens. But you’ve said things that I would have said not long ago. About knowing every public facility in your daily routine. I knew every PRIVATE public facility – places where colleagues/students/acquaintances were unlikely to go. Those days sucked!
Vegetables, man. I read Atkins myself, and my belief is that he was pro-veggie. Onions and garlic are great starts.
@Christopher
It seems you are a tough man. Here’s the cruel tip: did you know that “potato only diet” for 3-4 days is KETOGENIC? (For upgraded cruelty and advanced torture you can eat some slices raw).
You can kill so many birds with one stone! (Check Tim Steele’s blog for more info).
14? A-ha. At least something to start with.
@Duck
Thanks for the info. I see your point about the fungus. That makes sense. I am sticking with the high fat and mostly meat for now and just eating some fruit before the meal and then eating until full (hopefully resulting in the fruit displacing some of the fat/meat). Although, if the scale is any indication, I am just adding extra calories. But, initial weight gain seems to accompany most diet changes (unless you’re starving yourself). So, I’ll ride it out. I’ll keep playing this out and see where it leads before consulting a practitioner. Hopefully, I can resolve myself.
@Gemma
“It seems you are a tough man. Here’s the cruel tip: did you know that “potato only diet” for 3-4 days is KETOGENIC?”
Ha ha ha. That is indeed very cruel. Lol. I have not had a chance to check out Tim’s blog. But, I am intrigued on how this can be the case if you want to tell me.
@Wilbur
I usually eat the whole apple (sans stem). I am also an expert on private facilities, etc. The quality of the facility is less important than getting there and finding it un-occupied. If such a thing as Hell exists, this is certainly it: Waiting for some dumbass, doing god knows what, to get the fuck out of the bathroom and having no fucking idea how long I have to wait.
What was it that cured you of this affliction?
I agree on Atkins and the vegetables. Many of his criticisms are incorrect, like the fact that he advocated an all meat diet. I don’t think this is true from what I have read.
What are ya’lls thoughts on fructose? Not the demon they claim? Ditto on legumes?
“I am sticking with the high fat and mostly meat for now and just eating some fruit before the meal and then eating until full (hopefully resulting in the fruit displacing some of the fat/meat). Although, if the scale is any indication, I am just adding extra calories. But, initial weight gain seems to accompany most diet changes (unless you’re starving yourself). So, I’ll ride it out.”
No, you’re setting yourself up for failure and you just proved eveyone wasted their time on you.
Folks, please don’t respond to a single other comment from him.
People don’t get to use their time like that, ignore it all, and suck up more of it.
I thought something was off with this character from the first couple of exchanges on Eades’ post.
Fructose is only evil/toxic when it’s isolated, such as “high fructose corn syrup.” However, in nature, you never eat isolated fructose. Fructose is always found with fibers and antioxidants, and the fibers/antioxidants appear to protect you from the oxidative stress that would ordinarily be caused by isolated fructose. This is why fruit and honey perform amazingly well in studies, but filtered juices and HFCS causes problems.
We covered this phenomenon, in detail, in a recent post titled, The Hormesis Files: Who’s Afraid of Unrefined Sugar?
It’s a lot to take in, and no need to read it all now, but basically researchers were able to show this by feeding honey to rats and observing the protective effect of the pollen fibers and antioxidants found in honey. They were then able to duplicate its protective effect by feeding HFCS along with supplemental fibers. The end result was basically the same—a protection from the oxidative stress normally produced by HFCS.
Legumes are perfectly fine when cooked. Dr. Ayers, a glycobiologist who knows far more about plant toxins than just about anyone on the planet, wrote about legumes here:
Lectins – Heat’em and Eat’em
Dr. Ayers goes on to explain the science and allays unwarranted fears.
And as we’ve recently been exploring here, even if you do eat low doses of plant toxins, the toxins tend to have beneficial effects. Welcome to the wonderful world of hormesis.
We’ll be writing more on that soon, as soon as this ridiculous debate with Dr. Eades is finished :) Honestly, I thought we were done with the Inuit debate months ago!
But just be aware that it’s common to have a little gut pain when re-introducing legumes into the diet. Even the Eskimos would get gut pain when re-introducing seaweed for the first time each season. Seaweed is high in polysaccharides and it takes time for the gut to adjust to them. After a few days, they’d feel fine. Same thing can happen with legumes if you’re not used to them.
Go slow, and take a spoonful of ACV in water with your meals to help soothe things. In fact, ACV is great for many, many gut ailments. It’s sort of like swallowing some SCFAs. Read up on it. Make sure you get (Bragg’s) raw ACV with “the mother” (which is the gunk that needs to be shaken up).
“I’d just say ramp up fruit. If there’s any upset, see it out for reasonable time, hopefully no more than a couple of weeks. When that settles out, you already know how to introduce veggies and legumes”
I thought I was starting slow with just the fruit and the fermented veggies? (I am waiting for those to ferment at the moment) Trying not to go ‘zero to sixty’ all of a sudden like Duck said? What did I miss (apparently everything)?
I wasn’t trying to waste anyone’s time. I sincerely appreciate everyone who responded. Sorry for the bother.
Don’t take me too very seriously. Just know I’m paying attention.
And, by ramping up fruit, I didn’t mean increase absolute imput, I meant tradeoffs of your choice. I forgot this is an essential problem with LCers who think energy inputs don’t matter.
@Christopher
“I am sticking with the high fat and mostly meat for now”
” Lol. I have not had a chance to check out Tim’s blog.”
“I thought I was starting slow”
“What did I miss (apparently everything)?”
OK, I think you need a reset on all levels.
What are your plans for the next weekend? Wanna be my guest? I am going to throw you into cold water, and then I serve potatoes only, three times a day, perhaps with some salt and black pepper and bit of vinegar and olive oil.
You won’t be bored, I promise, there is a lot of reading to do: here and here.
@Chris,
sushi is also good for those who don’t like veg.
has RS, white rice is easy on the digestion.
although i prefer having fruits @ the end of meal (cause less “anger” in your bowl)
starting slow is good idea & ignore RN. XD.
cheers
(& don’t forget bone broth + veg soup. also less “angering” for bowls. XD)
I’ve read all the comments so far, investing hours in this dialog. I look forward to each new day so that I can learn the truth from Dr. Eades. And it is the most evasive, puzzle-like thread I have ever read. The Dr. is at once slippery, cunning, seemingly brilliant and I have no idea what the hell he is talking about. But that’s just me.
I l just feel his thread is elevated entertainment and to hear the back and forth and continually see Dr. Eades punt is very intertaining. He must be benefitting from the controversy, however. Although he thinks only a handful of people are paying attention, I think there are many. All I can say is his next post better be SUPER!! Cause he’s been engaging in verbal foreplay for weeks. His Next Post will certainly expose us all to the light of creation and TRUTH.
“I think there are many.”
Good intuition. There are.
He says only a handful are paying attention to belittle the efforts put in against him. When he basically said thousands? more like 5s of people I felt like replying “nu uh, more like bagillions of people!”
no wonder Duck Dodgers always seemed to have multiple personality disorder to me. XD
XD
I enjoy the personal attacks and attempts to alienate ppl, if you don’t have a thick hide you aren’t gonna get far in this world, best to grow one and deal with it. The world isn’t here for anyone’s personal comfort.
TBH I was about to delete the shortcut to this blog, if I wanna see nothing but pics of food and someones weekend activities I’d still have all those FB friends I axed. I want raw information and conflict, that’s why I came here and altho I don’t comment much I soak it all in and have synthesized much into my personal life.
This post and comments, and the exchange with the esteemed but pompous Dr. E has restored my faith in my contempt for humanity,,, all is right with the world again. *Cheers!*
“This post and comments, and the exchange with the esteemed but pompous Dr. E has restored my faith in my contempt for humanity,,, all is right with the world again. *Cheers!*”
Laf. Hey Jake, next time you’re considering deleting the feed, be sure to email me first and remind me of this comment.
Thanks man.
Will do brother. Good to see you bringing your A-game again. Set em up and knock em down :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvsQsao1F88
Ha, indeed: conformity is corrosive.
Went into iTunes and added that to the eclectic library. I love when I have it on shuffle and something like that gets sandwiched between Ella Fitzgerald and Glen Miller big band stuff. You should see my guests do double takes. :)
Snagged a few other tracks too. Favorite title was “Vote With a Gun,” but I unfortunately didn’t resonate with it tune wise. I gotta have at least a semblance of melody. Old fashioned. :)
“Ha, indeed: conformity is corrosive.”
Us square pegs lose their edge when shoved into round holes. Better to file a point on it and shove first.
I agree, my tastes are generally fast and loud but it’s gotta have some melody. You might enjoy this one if you like the COC.
Avenged Sevenfold – Burn It Down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqoHm_acack
I like to add this one in too, it’ll make anyone with a soul cry, with the added benefit of freaking em out after a round of melodic death metal. Gotta keep em guessing :) Muhahhah
Vanessa Mae – Nessun Dorma from Violin Fantasy on Puccini’s ‘Turandot’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaAX9l-H20o
Oh my.
Well, the first is just OK for me. Decent technical (which is what metal is, rather than bluesy, like rock), somewhat reminiscent of Queensryche or Evanescence, but too fast for me.
The second is indeed dreamy. So, you like chicks playing violin, eh? Hot, isn’t it? Try this:
http://youtu.be/KlXplHvPzSo
You might get a physiologically normal male response.
“So, you like chicks playing violin, eh? Hot, isn’t it? ” I do. Smokin hot. Added that one, thx bro.
“but too fast for me” It’s on my gym MP3, all those are fast. I’m a lil hyper in a quiet moment tho, like audio crack.
“Evanescence” Amy Lee’s voice gives me goosebumps. That’s on my playlist too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCI99p02ayU
THAT is HOT
My favorite Corrosion of Conformity song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKPicUnsPPg
Love the groove.
‘the esteemed but pompous Dr. E has restored my faith in my contempt for humanity’
LOL! Written like a pro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXdF9uhVrI0
Give a listen. Takes me back to old Floyd and Van Der Graaf Generator.
Yeah there are some who worship GYBE – I get it, though I’ve only casually listened and never really gotten into them. Maybe the casual nature of my listening is the problem.
Yes, I like me some biochemistry with a side order of conflict too. Keep’ em coming Richard.
Barry Manilow. The Carpenters and Air Supply rock!!
Let’s have a look at some weasel words in that paper: “A Selective Sweep on a Deleterious Mutation in CPT1A in Arctic Populations.”
After the authors finish their detective work and identify the mutated allele, and its high prevalence, they need to discuss their findings.
First they say: “It is known that the mutation decreases fatty-acid oxidation and ketogenesis, explaining its role in hypoketotic hypoglycemia.”
Next, they need to look at the dietary habits and metabolism to confront their findings, so they reach to Phinney/Volek/Stefansson and say:
“With agriculture being unsustainable in this part of the world as a result of its extremely cold environment, these coastal populations mostly fed on marine mammals for a high-fat diet rich in n-3 polyenoic fatty acids. Such a diet would have led the populations to be in a permanent state of ketosis, where metabolism is mainly ‘‘lipocentric’’ (ketone bodies, fatty acids) rather than ‘‘glucocentric’’ (glucose), as found in a high-carbohydrate diet. A lipocentric metabolism provides an efficient means of maintaining energy, which is similar to the state experienced during starvation. CPT1A imports long-chain fatty acids into mitochondria for use in fatty-acid oxidation. This helps to maintain energy homeostasis and normoglycemia when carbohydrate intake is low.”
What to do with the obvious contradiction? They should be in permanent ketosis, but this enzyme deficiency blocks it…So at the end, after counting in the residual activity of CPT1a in some circumstances, they conclude:
“In this context, the CPT1A-activity decrease due to the c.1436C > T mutation could be protective against overproduction of ketone bodies.”
@Christopher, what’s the score?
I have been reading, studying, doing my own n=1 and have several friends joining me and all I have to say is Dr. E. is playing dodge ball. Not trying to catch any thing but simply running at the back of the court.
As I stated before, I have not had any problems with potatoes and rice in my own n=1 (as long as I eat them with enough fat. And, why wouldn’t you?). I usually try to stay in ketosis though, just because I find it difficult to eat in such a way that I stay out of it or in it all the time. And, I don’t feel good going back and forth (Atkins flu). But, that has more to do with my own stupid eating patterns than anything else.
So, anyone proclaiming VLC is the only correct way to eat (even Dr. Eades), I will be thinking critically about anything they say as that has not been my experience.
Hi Chris,
I went to Anthony Colpo’s site and read about his “debate” with Dr. Eades. The posts are several years old, but Colpo perfectly describes Dr. Eades current behavior in this debate. Just absolutely nails it.
I encourage you to check it out.
Although Eades is a strong proponent of VLC I’ve never once seen him say it is the only correct way to eat. In fact I’ve seen him say the opposite. It’s possible to be a VLC proponent but also say it may not be the best diet for everyone. In fact my own belief is that there is no one diet that is best for everyone. That’s something everyone must decide for themselves. Having said that I also believe it’s always a good policy to think critically about anything anyone says about any of this. Thinking critically is a good default position regardless of any other variable.
@Rickmerr
First off, I was just saying that ‘even if he did’, it would not matter to me. I was not attempting to put words in his mouth. My apologies for my poor writing skills.
Second, this quote informs my statement further.
Third, I completely agree with you. Noone, no matter who they are or what they know is an excuse to turn off your brain and stop thinking critically for yourself, even Dr. Eades. (oops, I did it again. :) )
“Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
WTF?
Happens with links, sometimes, and inconsistently. It’s set to let whitelisters through with up to three links in a comment but every now & then, I’ll find stuff with less, even from Duck or Tim.
Don’t assume the worst so quickly.
“Don’t assume the worst so quickly.”
Well, assuming the worst would’ve been to post it on Dr. Eades’ site and call you a liar. I thought you cultivated a more abrasive style here. And, ‘WTF’ is a lot easier to type than: “My other comments are working, but this one is not. You’re not choosing to moderate me now are you? What gives?”
My apologies.
I did that too. Eades is a Kitchen Appliance Salesman using his blog to schill his other productions and bullshit supplements. I looked up the contents of one of these and it’s a bloody waste of money. The old guy has to protect his turf even when he digs himself a deep hole. Someone really needs to remind him that trench warfare was a World War 1 ‘thing’.
I looked up old blogposts of his, back to 2006. He has a lot of incorrect information except back in those days, people didn’t take him to task. His commenters were mainly accolytes, sycophants, and pleaders.
If he’s been at it with this blog of his, the book (1995), how old IS he and for how many years did he ‘practice’ medicine? That’s one boast I have not read: how long was he in active practice?
It’s pretty obvious that he’s been avoiding the current issue and whatever brilliant information he’s going to come up with in his next blogpost, he’s picking the brains of anyone and everyone he can think of or connect with who might get him out of the situation he’s engineered for himself. It didn’t have to come to this. And he criticizes Richard that his wife must be suffering in the relationship? Can you imagine what a thick headed stubborn asshole Mary is married to? Talk about pot calling kettle. Wow! But that’s pretty typical isn’t it?
I’ve been one of the many silent readers on yours, hyperlipid, heisenbug and other people’s blogs for ages, and I’ve been enjoying the discussion and the gradual search for truth immensely. I was astonished by your first sentence. Not that it matters, but I think this is one of the best you’ve ever made, letting the facts to speak for themselves so loud and clear. Sure, sometimes you like beating that dead horse for pleasure and not so much going much into clear, concise and novel ways of looking at things, this is your blog after all, for your own entertainment.
Anyway, this is the first and probably only time that I have been prompted enough to comment , and it is to say that I’m deeply thankful for people who bother and take their time with posts and comments like yours and your collaborators’. Not that it matters, but you guys should know that your work is truly appreciated by tonnes of random wankers like me.
Quick Q. If gut flora are symbiotes, how do those special sterile lab mice with no gut flora survive? Are they given a special diet?
Good question. Most of the time though, sterile conditions are maintained when very young mice are contaminated by cancer cells. See what happens.
There’s some studies where sterile mice are infected by pathogenic bacteria and then fed the feces of other mice to find out what happens. Mice are coprophagic so it’s not all the weird to plop some bacteria filled mouse poop into their cages.
It’s not difficult to provide them with sterilized chow. It’s more difficult to prevent bacterial contamination from the air so the flow is maintained in very special ways.
I don’t think they keep these mice alive for all that long.
And how far up the evolutionary tree do we find symbiotic intestinal gut flora?
Since there’s been intestines? Sorry, couldn’t help myself. ;)
I went back and looked at a post where you were criticizing Colpo. Look at the gluttony you described! https://freetheanimal.com/2010/03/isnt-it-time-for-anthony-colpo-to-get-a-life.html
Mike Eades tries to limit the discussion to biochemistry, but it is more about evolution: adaptations to the extreme environments which are known to promote weird mutations in species. Good example of a weird cold adaptation can be icefish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uhhVwYfllE
Ugh, this horseshit:
Once again, you’ve proven you’ve got a lot more time on your hands than I do. I’ll have to catch up with all this later.
Saying “I don’t have time” in an internet debate is just about the pussiest possible cop-out in the world, but Michael Eades has pushed it to such a regurgitative extreme, it is nauseating to behold.
Each of us has the same 86,400 seconds in a day that the next guy has. The question is how we choose to expend that time.
If I showed up to a boxing match, and then told the other guy, who dodged and weaved and punched better than I did, “You obviously have a lot of time on your hands,” people would correctly call me a humongous giner (as in va-) for making excuses as to why I could not hold my own in the fight that I god damn motherfucking showed up to.
I don’t see one iota of difference here. I have said it before — and I have seen no reason to change my mind — Eades is so accustomed to being worshipped (in person, at his blog, wherever), that his instinctive reflex to criticism is to assume the other guy is crazy/stupid/biased/evil/John McDougall/unfairly blessed with too much time.
Fuck yourself in the ear, Eades, and in your second asshole right under your nose. If you’re too big a pussy to fucking PARTICIPATE in the fight that YOU PICKED, then shut the fuck up and go home. You god damn motherfucking pussy, you.
Richard.
I think it is unfair of you to be lumping me within the same camp as some of Eades commenters.
As far as some of his readers are concerned, Dr Eades delivers information as if it’s next to the Word of God, and they somehow convince themselves that Eades is being more than fair in how he approaches the debate.
So, Eades can use every trick in the book to avoid answering questions, and it won’t matter in the slightest to them. You could give them critical thinking classes from here to Xmas and they would still be talking about banning people, burning effigies, and just generally wetting themselves with their supposed wit when ridiculing anybody who dares disagree with the mighty Eades. If you or team Duck debated like Eades does, I would have gone from your site ages ago. And, I also don’t talk about bannings and burnings, and I don’t ridicule people who dare to disagree with you. It will take someone to behave in a dishonest way before I would even consider doing something like that.
Yes, I don’t know all the ins and outs of the science, but I know the basics, and I am learning more as I go. And I have good intent and I want to learn. I have my bias as all of us do, but I am also trying to learn all the time. Your site, and you, has opened me up to new ideas. Some I’m not sure about, some I think are probably wrong (but I try to still be open to them and refuse to make up my mind for sure), and others that I agree with you on. But, you and the site has given me lots of food for thought , and I see some things in a different light now. I highly doubt that some of Eades commenters have even the slightest intention of opening their minds to anything that may make them feel even the slightest way uncomfortable.
As you know, with dogma comes certainty, along with a feeling of safety. Some of Eades readers seem to scared to open their minds to something new; something different; something that makes them feel even a little bit uncomfortable.
I honestly believe it is wrong to lump me in with them.
Ok, I’ve had my say, and I will leave it at that.
M44
Not sure what you may be referring to. From what I recall, you were one of the ones on that thread that was taking Eades to task, so well done in my view.
“So, Eades can use every trick in the book to avoid answering questions, and it won’t matter in the slightest to them.”
Kinda like Fox News viewers.
“Kinda like Fox News viewers.”
And CNN viewers. Both sides accuse the other of this. And, they’re both right. Noone likes to think for themselves.
That is one thing that Dr. Eades got right in his original post for sure.
“Kinda like Fox News viewers.”
And CNN, and MSNBC. And all “voters” in general. Bunch’a brainless whores. In general, of course. :)
Eades doesn’t have time to explain something that he says is so simple but he has time to make 129 responses his last blog post.
Right on. Upvote from me. At least he’s posting less and less frequently. Getting spanked doesn’t suit him.
Richard you need a thumbs up function here. LOL!
It’s just historical now, but Michael Eades, on his ‘confirmation bias’ post, tried to argue ‘basic’ biochemistry with me and then never responded to information that I supplied at his request.
‘Basically’, how can a healthy individual achieve ketosis with a very high-protein diet (from several pounds of meat per day) that’s also isocaloric? There’s no weight-loss so no burning of stored fat that could conceivably tip the ketogenic ratio towards ketosis (No coconut trees either in Nunavut, far as I know).
Answer: they can’t. They are not able to do so.
The (Dietary) Ketogenic Ratio formula by Woodyatt is almost a hundred years old, pretty ‘basic’ (no one thought to specify ‘isocaloric’ at the time but it’s implied since there are no terms for energy balance).
Really, 1921: http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=533733.
It’s still in practice today when prescribing therapeutic ketogenic diets.
What’s happening with the relevant hormones and the liver when there’s excess protein in an isocaloric diet? In other words, what are the underlying mechanisms? That’s pretty basic too, referred-to by every ketogenic researcher, including popular Phinney and Volek (not to mention any blogger who’s ever failed to reach ketosis on ‘too much meat’).
So if Dr. Eades didn’t want to cede the ketosis argument, he could only recover by trying to negate the underlying premise (too much protein), which he did try to do civilly at that point.
The underlying premise rests on reports that they ate a few pounds of meat per day. It’s reported by almost every researcher who published on traditionally-living ‘arctic’ populations.
So I took the time to compile key references for that diet and for other information, at his request, in two organized comments.
He graciously said in his last comment that he’d post them together when he could read them and respond, after a break to catch-up on other things. I politely said I could use a break too.
That was the last I heard, over a year ago.
Those neglected arguments and references have since been far exceeded by Duck Dodgers and his collaborators, so I don’t think I have anything to add to that debate ever again (not even in the 24 and 1/2th century :)
Frankly, after the more recent genetic information, I don’t see how there can be any argument at all.
It’s fun though to note that a long time ago Dr.Eades still could have ceded the Inuit ketosis argument with some dignity and more: he could, ironically, have greater support for his protein-rich diet because the Inuit are then properly seen to illustrate the viability of a very long-term, very High-protein diet.
Good grief.
Yes, exactly. All of it.
Notice dr Atkins claimed his diet is different than Eskimo diet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBi2VABLNb0&t=24m44s
Don’t really have a dog in this fight , very interesting. I’m Sure the upcoming work on the exposome will make this make more sense. This seams to boil down in what environment are ketones adaptive?
Ok Richard.
Misunderstanding.
Thanks.
Sorry, forgot to put my above comment in context –
This is regarding what I said on mar 7 on this thread.