Sunday Church For Ketotards

Two items to cover today. But first, let me make a distinction. When I use the derogatory term “Ketotards,” I’m talking about the version of chronic ketosis where one or more of the following applies within the framework:

  1. Calories don’t count if you eat enough fat
  2. Protein intake has a glucose and insulin response and must be severely limited
  3. Ingesting exogenous ketones (as dietary intake rather than endogenous production via fat metabolism) burns fat
  4. Fat bombs (bolus doses of isolated fat) burn body fat
  5. The more ketones, the better
  6. If it’s good enough for an epileptic child, it’s good enough for anyone

I am not talking about mild-chronic or acute ketosis that includes adequate protein (which I’d say minimally is 25% of calories, 30% is better), a sense of caloric limitation, the recognition that excess fat can cause fat storage, various fasting protocols, etc. Let’s call that “Ketosanity.”

First up is this rather silly video, in my view, that has some ungodly number of like 30,000 views.

No doubt a huge relief for all the Ketotards out there guzzling fat bombs, giving them an excuse as to why the scale either doesn’t move or moves in an adverse direction.


Well, it turns out there is some physiology behind the notion that as fat is mobilized and metabolized, water can be drawn into the cell, resulting in no difference in mass or size. Then, some glorious day, its all goes WHOOSH, and presto, you’re back on target.

Lyle McDonald discussed this possible phenomenon some years back: Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat.

For nearly 20 years I looked for research to support this, I was never sure if it was based on something from the 50’s or he just pulled it out of thin air as an explanation. Recently, one paper did suggest that visceral fat can fill up with water after massive weight loss but that’s about it.


I’d also note that this isn’t universal, lean dieters often see visual improvements on a day to day basis; a lot seems to depend on whether or not they tend to retain water in general. Folks who do have problems with water retention tend to have stalls and whooshes, those who don’t show nice consistent visual changes.

Go read the whole thing to get his complete take. I think Lyle’s overarching point is that it happens, but only to some, and it’s different per individual when it does. It’s not something you take to the bank as a physiological absolute. What I see is lots of people using it as an excuse, when the real reason is that they’re eating too much fat, too many calories.

Occam’s Razor.

Alright, next up is a stupendous post by Marty Kendall in Optimising Nutrition, with excerpts from Mike Julian: Are Ketones Insulinogenic and Does it Matter?

It’s a long-ass monster of a post I encourage you to read, so let me just hit a couple of high points.

A couple of people recently asked me whether I thought exogenous ketones are insulinogenic.  Roger Unger’s 1964 paper the Hypoglycemic Action of Ketones.  Evidence for a Stimulatory Feedback of Ketones on the Pancreatic Beta Cells[1] indicates that ketone levels are controlled by insulin and that ketones suppress lipolysis:

Ketone bodies have effects on insulin and glucagon secretions that potentially contribute to the control of the rate of their own formation because of antilipolytic and lipolytic hormones, respectively.  Ketones also have a direct inhibitory effect on lipolysis in adipose tissue.[2]

It seems that exogenous ketones are insulinogenic to some degree.

Get that? Not only do ketones inhibit fat burning (they are actually an effect, a byproduct of it, not a cause of it), but they also stimulate the release of insulin.

It appears that exogenous ketones provide about half the insulinogenic impact of carbohydrates (i.e. about the same as protein).

So, if you’re avoiding protein because of its impact on insulin, should you also consider exogenous ketones for the same reason?  Mike Julian added:

Exogenous ketones stimulate insulin, but BHB also inhibits lipolysis directly via the nicotinic acid receptor PUMA-G in adipose.[10]

While exogenous ketones may be equally as insulinogenic as protein, they’ll also be a counterproductive use of insulin.

Whereas the insulin response to protein is a positive use of insulin to build and repair muscle, with exogenous ketones, insulin simply reduces oxidation of other fuels to allow ketones to be burned.

Exogenous ketones displace the burning of other substrates.  You know what else displaces the burning of other substrates?  Glucose. Carbs reduce the amount of fat you burn. Similarly, exogenous ketones displace both fat and carbs/glucose.

That’s a double whammy in the wrong direction! Substrate competition is key.

So all those people out there saying ‘cut protein, limit protein’ who’re then taking ketone supplements are getting the same insulin load they’re trying to avoid, without the benefit of those mild spikes.

But do these exogenous ketones help with fasting?

Mike Julian again:

If exogenous ketones raise insulin and reduce blood glucose, then where does the glucose go?  It gets stuffed back into the liver. 

Think about all of these people who fast with the intent of depleting liver glycogen but drinking Keto/OS. They’re literally preserving glycogen stores! No wonder we were seeing whacky glucose and ketone response to fasting with exogenous ketones.

Instead of the normal trajectory of a fast that would result in depleted liver glycogen we see exogenous ketones keeps this from happening, so you would get purges of glucose out of the liver throughout the fast when people were fasting using exogenous ketones.”

So, let me TL;DR it for you, with a slightly different take. It’s similar idiocy to what goes on in the “hockey stick” version of Climatetard land.

The idea is that CO2 breeds more CO2 and higher temperatures, repeat…a positive feedback, or “chain reaction.” But nature is dominated by negative feedback. For instance, more CO2, more plant growth, which sequesters carbon. A positive feedback is a nuclear fission. There are other factors both ways, of course, this is just a simple basic swipe.

So, the same dumb is on display here. Ketones, as a product of fat metabolism, have a negative feedback, so that they don’t run out of control (as in ketoacidosis). That negative feedback is to inhibit lipolysis (fat burning), thereby slowing the production of new ketones, shunting glucose to the liver, thereby allowing the existing ones to be burned preferentially to glucose.

The bottom line? Those taking exogenous ketones in order to boost fat metabolism and weight loss are actually inhibiting it. Moreover, the exogenous ketones have an insulin response roughly equal to that of protein, but that glucose and insulin response to protein has an important role. It allows the protein to be used for tissue repair and building. Exogenous ketones do no such thing.

So the Ketotards need to go back to eating replete protein. 30% of kcal is an excellent minimum place to start.

Elixa Probiotic is a British biotech manufacturer in Oxford, UK. U.S. Demand is now so high they’ve established distribution centers in Illinois, Nevada, and New Jersey.

Still, sell-outs happen regularly, so order now to avoid a waiting list.

Richard Nikoley

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2021, contains 5,000 posts. I blog what I wish...from health, diet, and food to travel and lifestyle; to politics, social antagonism, expat-living location and time independent—while you sleep—income. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. Read More


  1. Barbara on April 30, 2017 at 12:05

    Would be interested to know how you chose your caloric target. Also, if you’ve had a particularly active day (something outside your norm) do you eat more?

    Sidenote: big believer in the squishy fat. As a woman, when I’m at a caloric deficit I lose scale weight only twice a month (the week before my menstrual cycle and the week after it). The other two weeks I swell up like one of the balloons in that video but it gets squishy and leaves the following week.

  2. Hap on April 30, 2017 at 21:14

    While I did not have these facts in hand, and am glad you looked in depth, I have always had a “gut” intuition that exogenous ketones is a loser idea. Maybe one day we will see a limited use for exogenous ketones.

  3. Hap on April 30, 2017 at 21:30

    Hmmmm…exogenous ketones essentially makes one fatter, just like fat bombs. It also drives insulin resistance in those who are already there or on the path.

    Why would we go out of our way to mess up a perfectly useful tool like IF with a stupid idea?

    I am still skeptical of something called “fast mimicking”…maybe we should find a way to call it something else. If I did not know that Dr Longo was the real deal…..I’d be even more skeptical.

    Life Extension still promotes supplements that it claims are “fast mimicking”.

  4. Robert on May 1, 2017 at 00:36

    “next up is a stupendous post by Marty Kendall in Optimising Nutrition”

    I had to look up the meaning of the word stupendous, but wow, that’s really what the article is! Thanks for drawing attention to it.

    It’s gotten me to think about the whole ketones thing. Ketones in your blood is associated with fat loss, and some health benefits. So let’s make a product that artificially raises blood ketones, then we would see even more fat loss and health benefits, right?

    Low cholesterol is associated with less heart diesease. Let’s make a drug that artificially lower that number, then we would see less heart disease, right? I wonder what “Cholesterol clarity” says about that?

    • Richard Nikoley on May 1, 2017 at 06:55

      Well, to make a distinction, Robert, ketones are a by-product of fat oxidation, both dietary and body fat. We’re always burning some of that fat, even in overfeeding. There are always some ketones. Elevated levels of ketones is a sign of possible body fat loss.

      However, if you’re eating tons of fat, or ingesting ketones, it’s going to be damn hard to nail down what fat is being burned, if any.

    • Robert on May 1, 2017 at 07:24

      You are right, an therein lies the problem with ketosis for weight loss. I just checked Dietdoctor’s keto page. Cut protein to max 25% of calories, preferably even lower. Carbs under 20 g. The rest fat. Then measure ketones. But I can’t find any mention of cutting calories. Then as you say, ketones will be high, but it can be all butter, no body fat.

      I guess it’s just assumed it will be so satisfying, you naturally go low calorie. Eenfeldt himself did two months in “optimal ketosis” and lost 4.5 kg although he was already lean. (Usually his diet is “liberal” LCHF, roughly 100 g carbs, and now he keeps his weight as low as when in ketosis with the addition of 16:8 IF). But obviously not all going keto are lean and healthy. Not everyone will naturally go low on calories like Eenfeldt did.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 1, 2017 at 07:32

      Yea, exactly. Lots of these keto gurus don’t really practice what they preach. Ironically, maybe Jimmy is the only one with integrity. 😉

    • hap on May 1, 2017 at 08:06

      I’d make the point that optimizing nutrition is like fake news….a story to support a a false premise.

      Complex Non linear dynamic systems become vulnerable and fragile under conditions of optimization controls. Not that there aren’t winners and loses in the biological crap shoot or that we can’t derive fundamental nutrionprinciples for guidance but optimization at war with adapatation…..and to some extent, enjoyment.

      Taleb….would say adopt practices that increase your “optionality” and not make one fragile. Exogenous ketone not only violate logical and and current scientific enquiry, also not consistent with via negativa. While one cannot ignore the “details” there is some pretty deep wisdom in Devany ( pithily summarized by richard) and say…Pollan, and taleb.

      It seems that it is our moral obligation to make judgements and define distinctions in those frameworks, just as in other facets of life.

      It’s easy to lose our way….fat bombs or hunger strikes with no real skin in game. Scams live in the noise.
      some scams are very powerful, alluring, and destructive…..say Marx?

    • Richard Nikoley on May 1, 2017 at 08:38

      Perhaps Marty Kendall could have picked a better name.

      But he’s doing good work and it’s very revealing. He’s an Oz engineer with a T1D wife. I suspect he loves her. So the gist I get is that he wanted to baseline her condition with carb limitation, but also wanted to make sure she’s hitting all essential points in micro nutrition.

      Then the love bird goes and makes his work available to the world.

      And it’s interesting. You see micro nutritional profiles all over a board, irrespective of diet.

    • Hap on May 1, 2017 at 09:23

      I did sort of pick at the semantics…and in that sense superficial. But language is key and people fall for definitions of their own making.

      I am sure Mr Kendall has very good intentions and perhaps even advice. It seems to be the fashion these days that trained engineers (Ivor cummins, Dave Feldman, and possibly Kendall) are entering the world of biology with their perspective and claiming a sort of new Gnosticism regarding the understanding of biological processes and the design and interpretation of research. We now even have departments of “systems biology”…which I see as a smokescreen of sorts to dress things up for funding reasons?

      I guess we set ourselves up for that…

      Welcome to the fray.

  5. ramon on May 1, 2017 at 05:21

    When I hear of fat folks talking exogenous ketones it makes me want to puke. for the general public exogenous ketones are really just a sports supplement (real sports, not water-robics or disc golf).

    I have conducted numerous (self and wife, not lab) experiments (30-50 mile fast bike rides) with KetoCaNa both fat adapted and not fat adapted and I see some definite use for endurance athletes. But it really is just another way to take in calories. I really like it for that purpose, but not enough to spend the ridiculous cost again.

    I don’t sell the stuff or care what Ben Greenfield and Tim Ferris say about them. exogenous ketones can prevent you from bonking….but who wants to get all the inflammation from 3+ hours on a bike anyway.

    If you are going to do high intensity exercise….meh. drink water and take your creatine everyday.

    • Hap on May 2, 2017 at 10:03

      I think it would be fun and demonstrative to get a window on the metabolism of certain freak athletes……like MIchael Phelps….at their peak. Wasn’t he like eating freakishly fat and high carb meals and something like 10K Kcal /day? I don’t know how the sports nutrition/med folks figured all that out.

    • ramon on May 2, 2017 at 10:55

      That would be interesting. Swimmers notoriously overtrain but it seems unlikely that a “sprinter” type swimmer would eat that much without getting fat or over training (sprinting being relative versus Usain Bolt). I do remember some coach coming out and saying the 8000 clorie/day comment he made was an exageration. However I do remember him saying he ate some high fat and carby meals (pancakes etc). Of course if he gets the munchies……

      Doping aside…some Tour de france cyclists (especially the strong ones) do eat a large amount during multiple 100 mile races back to back but they take in tremendous amounts of sugar during the races (gels, powders..etc).

  6. Robert on May 1, 2017 at 07:38

    Just an example of the problem with low carb or keto forums. Here are two comments from (the subject is gout and keto):
    “I started a keto diet the end of January this year 2017 and was having great success by March 1st I lost close to 40 pounds but then the unthinkable happened! I started have severe pain in my joints of my feet and then in my stomach and then the weight started coming back on…..I was trying to get even stricter with my diet by adding intermittent fasting. But whatever the heck was happening inside my body…..was like an avalanche. The more I tried to press through it the worst the pain got. I then decided to take a break from ketosis for a few days and the pain went away. I was heartbroken because this diet was the first diet in my life to get me such great “initial” success. I guess I have to place this weight problem, and diabetes in the hands of God….who knows more than us all.”

    And now the reply from a commenter (in part):
    “Paula, I would encourage you to give ketosis another try, this time avoiding any fructose sources (which includes cauliflower and asparagus). If you have a flare up, cherry pills can get you past the problem. Skip ADF if it isn’t working for you. Its been known to increase cortisol levels in women which could lead to the other issues.”

    So it can’t possibly be the ketogenic diet that is causing trouble. More likely it’s miniscule amounts of fructose in cauliflower and asparagus. Did this obese woman never even eat trace amounts of fructose before going keto? And now she starts eating cauliflower and asparagus, and the fructose is causing gout and weight gain…

    Keto is an extreme and unnatural diet. This doesn’t mean it can’t be beneficial for some. But if someone does bad on it, the extreme unnatural diet should be the prime suspect. There is a tendency to never question the diet, but instead you need to cut carbs even more, cut protein, fast more. In fact do anything, except watching calories or exercise, since that is proven to be useless for weight loss.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 1, 2017 at 07:57

      Since the diet is a priori perfect, can’t be the diet.

    • Hap on May 1, 2017 at 09:27

      Again, a fundamental mistake……ketosis as a permanent lifestyle.

      In the end, all these dogmas get carried to the extreme…lke the old SNL skit with Bill Murray “Who is mas macho?”

      I forget who said something like “science fails when adopting a creed”……Climate science anyone?

    • Robert on May 1, 2017 at 12:33

      I think I heard on a podcast, probably bulletproof radio, that ketones are anti inflammatory, but not for ever. After some time the effect stops. Therefore cycling ketosis is more beneficial.

      I’ve tried to Google it, but I can’t find anything on it.

      Has anyone come across this?

  7. Hap on May 1, 2017 at 10:09

    If chronic carbohydrate excess can make you sick…..why is it not logical to suggest that chronic ketosis will do the same? Perhaps a good idea throw some exogenous ketones on that fire.

  8. thhq on May 1, 2017 at 11:00

    The only whoosh I know of is dropping glycogen water weight. LCHF is one way to do it. Running a marathon Is another. And it’s rinse and repeat, gaining and losing the same five pounds over and over.

    I know that I went on LCHF that I would drop my glycogen weight. But I like having it around, and I keep it replenished by eating carbs. It’s my bonk insurance after 20 miles on the bike.

    Glycogen doesn’t store itself in fat cell water balloons so far as I know.

    • Robert on May 1, 2017 at 12:08

      Poor, poor thhq, living your life as a sugar burner and not fat adapted… 😉

  9. Hap on May 1, 2017 at 20:48

    Need to start somewhere…..ketone bodies and their pleotropic effects beyond energy substrate in the absence of glucose are discussed at some length in this article. They mainly function as signalling molecules and impact on many important enzymatic and chemical reactions.

    This does not mean you should dump them into your system, especially if you are out of any kind of energy balance.

    Pardon the link….please.

    Trends Endocrinol Metab. 2014 Jan; 25(1): 42–52.
    Published online 2013 Oct 18. doi: 10.1016/j.tem.2013.09.002
    PMCID: PMC4176946
    NIHMSID: NIHMS586792
    Ketone bodies as signaling metabolites
    John C. Newman and Eric Verdin*

  10. Hap on May 1, 2017 at 21:17

    Critical Review
    Ketone Bodies Mimic the Life Span Extending
    Properties of Caloric Restriction
    Richard L. Veech
    Patrick C. Bradshaw
    Kieran Clarke
    William Curtis
    Robert Pawlosky
    M. Todd King

    This is a an excellent summary of the simillarities in “life span extension” between CR and Ketogenesis.

    It does not say one must be “fat adapted” to achieve benefits or dumping ketones or excluding glucose. It just means that ketone production is beneficial “in addition” to other ways of energy production in order upregulated many cellular activities, mainly antioxidant production and ROS reduction, upregulation of FOXO, upgraded apoptosis etc.

    the fasting state, intermittently entered for limited time periods, achieves this.

    • Robert on May 2, 2017 at 00:07

      Good point. And as others have pointed out: when in fasted state you can be 100% sure​ the ketones comes from your body fat, not from exogenous sources, or from the butter you’re eating.

      One conclusion could be this: chronic ketosis by means of diet, is really trying to achieve benefits of fasting without paying the price of hunger. It’s the lazy glutton’s way of fasting. It’s also a “hack” as described by Asprey. He wanted the effects of over night fasting to continue, but also needed to be energetic to perform, therefore the hack of bulletproof coffee.

      What to say then of chronic ketosis for years and years? No one would or could fast that long. An unprecedented experiment in human history. The articles here on FTA proved that the only candidates, Eskimos, were not in ketosis.

    • ramon on May 2, 2017 at 05:00

      One of the benefits of fasting is improved cellular autophagy (the only true detox). I am not sure fat bomb induced ketosis acomplishes this and i think Jimmy is walking proof.

      Dave is one of several people that tried long term ketosis and had negative side effects (diminished mucus production, and If I remember correctly he surmised that it was body wide including the digestive system). I do ok for 1 week. BJJ caveman would get “keto-rash” trying to go keto one week on a cyclical diet.

      In asprey’s official hack description for weight loss a fat preson would drink 3 bulletproof coffees aday and eat nothing else. That is actually caloric restriction (assuming these are 300 calories or so each and not 500-600)

    • thhq on May 2, 2017 at 07:47

      Not that anyone would WANT to be in ketosis longer than necessary. This is a modern argument, and a silly one at that. If you don’t believe Ancel Keys saying that ketosis is physiologically unsound, look at the mortality of epileptic children on forced ketosis diets.

      “Ketosis Kills Children” is not enough of a warning sign for ketoparents worshipping at the House of Jimmy. For them it’s an acceptable means of selection for the weak lambs.

  11. thhq on May 2, 2017 at 07:50

    3 bulletproof coffees a day diet????? Talk about nutrient-starved. Does Asprey not know that even the Twinkie Diet is healthier than this?

    • ramon on May 2, 2017 at 08:07

      Dave himself said it was a quick weight loss hack and did not reccomend it.

    • Robert on May 2, 2017 at 10:51

      thhq, all silicon valley CEO’s are doing it

      Silicon Valley’s elite are flocking to an extreme high-fat diet in hopes of living longer

      “Almost every investor I know in Silicon Valley is on some form of low-carb diet,”

    • ramon on May 2, 2017 at 10:56

      Dave sells them coffee. lol

    • Hap on May 2, 2017 at 12:26

      there are stories about Tom Brady, who having pretty much accomplished as much as possible in the NFL, is now looking to play another 6 years. he’s supposedly a big LCHF’er. I hate the Patriots, but have to admit I admire Brady for his durability and skill. His wife is kind of OK looking , too. the both of them are pretty well “preserved”. If LCHF, then start saving shekels for investment.

      Silicon Valley billionaires are obsessed with life extension, space colonization, and all sorts of stuff. They are funding many initiatives. I wish I had a couple hundred million to throw around.

      I’d start with Valter Longo and Tom Seyfried.

    • Hap on May 2, 2017 at 12:33

      followed the link on Silicon valley elite.

      A quote from an exec at Virta
      If you only try it for a month, you aren’t reaping the benefits,” says Sarah Hallberg, Virta’s medical director. “And if you’re not feeling well, it’s probably an indication that you’re not doing it right.” For Virta, she said, the nutritional regimen is only one part of an overall treatment plan.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 2, 2017 at 15:04

      I have to write a post about how sick I am of anecdote.

  12. DLunsford on May 2, 2017 at 12:22

    Richard, one of your best “no nonsense” posts I’ve seen to date. Your logic shows us scientists up at times. Best always!

    • Richard Nikoley on May 2, 2017 at 13:47

      Ha, well, I have an advantage. I’m on the outside, looking in.

      I’d never be able to do this, otherwise.

  13. Hap on May 2, 2017 at 12:39

    Check this out…..the VIRTA method of LCHF…..and diabetes control.

    Patients are guided in “nutritional ketosis”….(at least it’s a diet)…600-800 cal/day.

    Hey…guess what!!! No fat bombs.

    A Novel Intervention Including Individualized Nutritional Recommendations Reduces Hemoglobin A1c Level, Medication Use, and Weight in Type 2 Diabetes

    Amy L McKenzie1, PhD ; Sarah J Hallberg1,2, DO, MS ; Brent C Creighton1, PhD ; Brittanie M Volk1, RD, PhD ; Theresa M Link1, RD, CDE ; Marcy K Abner1, RD ; Roberta M Glon1, RN, BSN ; James P McCarter1, MD, PhD ; Jeff S Volek1, RD, PhD ; Stephen D Phinney1, MD, PhD

    • thhq on May 2, 2017 at 13:25

      Just going low carb and reducing calories to 1200 per day snapped my blood glucose back to normal from 200 fasting after a week. A1C responds more slowly. Metformin made me sick….seeing the prices for all the new Type 2 drugs they advertise on TV makes me even sicker…

    • Robert on May 2, 2017 at 13:29

      Well, with that amount of calories any diet is ketogenic. Ted Naiman: “if hypocaloric, a diet of pure carbohydrate could be ketogenic”

      Here’s a good infographic:

      Did you know you could be on a ketogenic diet without any added fat at all?

    • Richard Nikoley on May 2, 2017 at 16:00

      That’s a caloric restriction study, assessing ways to do caloric restriction,

    • Richard Nikoley on May 2, 2017 at 16:04

      Robert, I’ve been pounding that tune for at least five years.

      Way back, people doing the potato hack were in big ketosis.

    • Robert on May 2, 2017 at 22:50

      Richard, thanks for drawing attention to it, this is where I heard it first. I was reading the old potato hack posts some time ago, and that fact really surprised me. You, or maybe someone else, was peeing deep purple on the keto sticks.

      And it that case too, since zero fat was consumed, you can be sure it all come from adipose tissue.

      Keto dogma doesn’t allow for this. It says most need to go under 50 g carbs a day to achieve it. And watch protein. What “should” happen on a potato diet according to low carb dogma is something different altogether. Because of that, the potato hack was such an eye opener for so many.

  14. Robert on May 2, 2017 at 13:50

    Ramon wrote this in an earlier comment: “In asprey’s official hack description for weight loss a fat preson would drink 3 bulletproof coffees aday and eat nothing else. That is actually caloric restriction (assuming these are 300 calories or so each and not 500-600)”

    So basically VIRTA is ripping off Asprey 😉

    • Hap on May 3, 2017 at 07:29

      Schultz…i.e. Sbux, can sell coffee all day, But most of what they sell would make a mockery of twinkles and donuts. I wonder what protects him from the political sugar nazis?

  15. Hap on May 3, 2017 at 08:52

    I went back and reviewed Richards potato hack blog…….should have done that a long time ago. Next stop…Tim Steele book sitting on the kindle

    • ramon on May 3, 2017 at 09:47

      Tim’s book is fascinating. Especially the prison studies.
      Doing a hack for 3 days or so is a cheap easy way to lose a couple of pounds. Only issue is cooking loads of taters in interesting ways with no added calories I couldn’t do it without Richard’s potato wedges tossed in garlic and paprika.

  16. Hap on May 3, 2017 at 11:07

    I read it once….and tried, sort of half heartedly to increase my potato load. It became tedious in many ways…..which Richard has written….is part of the “program”. My dumb dog brain is very resistant to training.

    the “trick” to ketosis…is that there is no trick, other than finding a way to eat less (in the aggregate).

    However, for the past month, I have completely expunged some of my fat sources, including the most idiotic of all……always putting cream in my coffee.

    Is coffee good with a big potato in it?

  17. Mark on May 7, 2017 at 08:51

    When is your damn update post on protein results coming out? You promised something during the week and all I see you doing is fucking around on FB.


    • Richard Nikoley on May 7, 2017 at 15:13

      Ha, yea, guilty. However, I have been working on another project at the computer and it’s too easy to pop little shit off. This week, promise. Might be heading out of town tomorrow for a few days, some everything uncertain at the moment.

    • hap on May 7, 2017 at 17:50

      No problem. Have taken opportunity to read the home sis files.

    • Mark on May 9, 2017 at 09:56

      🙂 Just looking forward to the update. Find the whole thing interesting. I’ve been focusing on higher protein recently as well.

      But yeah, thats one of the things about FB/social media…the low friction ability to fire off shit.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 9, 2017 at 12:07

      Just got a last piece of puzzle insight, so now really time to write the post.

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