scratch-mark

Introducing “Richard Nikoley’s Ketotard Chronicles”

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Paula Deen Doing Nutritional Ketosis

OK, here we go and here we roll. You know, I got wise to the utter bullshit the very minute I saw the video of Jimmy Moore giving a speech down in Australia years ago, 2011 or 12, I think, where he likened protein to “chocolate cake.” I said so but then paid not too much attention because I couldn’t fathom that he’d promote “Nutritional Ketosis” aka the child and adolescent ketogenic diet for epileptics (an extreme clinical intervention) to such an extent that people would fall for it worldwide.

But that is precisely what has happened and because of that, more and more self-and-market promoters are jumping on the bandwagon to cash in.

I am a contravening voice and I have a particular, finely honed style in which I engage in that, explicitly designed to piss off and rub in the wrong way, as many people as possible. I aim to be as disruptive as all fuck. I will create a clusterfuck of a ruckus.

…This new Facebook group—Richard Nikoley’s Ketotard Chronicles—exists primarily to make critical distinctions between valid and helpful low-carb and ketogenic dietary regimes and those fucktarded variants promoted by shysters for money that harm people’s health in various ways, including making them fatter than ever.

This is a group effort where everybody gets to participate.

This will be science-based, of course, but the delivery will be one of disdain, mocking, and ridicule. If that sort of style is not for you, then it’s not, but the delivery style won’t change.

The medicine is needed, so please help spread the word.

The group is public, anyone can join, anyone can post to the group are are encouraged to do so. I can’t see everything but with crowdsourcing, I can see a lot more. The most laf-worthy Ketotarded shit gets promoted even more, by my, including here, on Free The Animal.

So, join the group, go forth and find Ketotarded shit, and participate.

Richard Nikoley

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2021, contains 5,000 posts. I blog what I wish...from health, diet, and food to travel and lifestyle; to politics, social antagonism, expat-living location and time independent—while you sleep—income. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. Read More

74 Comments

  1. linkdrop on June 15, 2017 at 02:22

    Anything that seeks truth through science is worthy in my opinion.

    By the way, I would be interested in your thoughts on where Sisson’s ‘Keto Reset Diet’ sits on the ketotard spectrum.

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-keto/

    • ramon on June 15, 2017 at 07:13

      In the middle of the Jimmy meltdown and the Mark’s daily Avocado reveal, an old “non-health” friend of mine send me an email that said “Have you heard of keto or ketones?”

      This turned out to be him marketing a powdered MCT and BHB(beta Hydroxy butyrate) supplement. The BHB part was fringe a year or two ago until podcastedx about by Dom D’Agostino.
      My buddy hasn’t read a single book about nutrition or fat loss or any of the “drop your insulin books” and he is hawking the MCT and ketone salt energy powder.

      Before Walmart goes belly up they will be selling keto products.
      ramon

    • Richard Nikoley on June 15, 2017 at 07:21

      Not impressed about Mark’s latest venture. All I’ll say about it for now.

      He’s invited me to convey privately to tell him why, which I will do.

    • linkdrop on June 15, 2017 at 15:30

      This is going to be bigger than Denise Minger and that China study I suspect. I’d be keen to hear her opinion on Keto-gate also.

    • Hap on June 16, 2017 at 08:56

      There seems to be a very limited upside to supplementing ketones and possibly significant unintended consequences. However, generating some ketones by limiting energy intake (periodically ) has substantial upside (some “unintended”) and very limited risks…..in most folks.

      the maxim of Taleb…..via negativa. the value of removing (food) is much greater than the value derived from adding (ketones).

      Tough to make a buck by telling people they should not eat. that’s the genius of Fast Mimicking Diet……. you can eat something sold to you, engineered to be sort of palatable, which according to power law will probably give you some majority of benefit of the real deal. Somehow in this case you are removing and adding simultaneously (net negative). Sign me up.

  2. Marc on June 15, 2017 at 15:25

    I just can’t stop looking at that hilarious picture!

    • thhq on June 15, 2017 at 16:32

      Paula the Dairy Queen

  3. Charlie Shaughnessy on June 15, 2017 at 20:13

    You are doing Bob’s work. Bob bless you.

  4. linkdrop on June 16, 2017 at 08:44

    I am surprised this anti-keto meme is not trending more strongly. Time my good friend. All in good time.

  5. jethro on June 16, 2017 at 10:33

    Richard, what is your opinion of MD Mauro Di Pasquale’s anabolic diet in which you eat all the carbs you want at least one meal per week, up to 2 days a week and the remaining days very low carb like keto?

    • Richard Nikoley on June 16, 2017 at 10:51

      To me, depends whether you’re cal def or not, and what your aims are. For cal def, the only essential is high protein and whether the rest is all fat or all carb matters not. In balance or overfeeding, best to keep fat and carb inverse.

      Here’s what I posted on FB last night:

      You can keep yourself under control, even on vacation. The combination of LooseIt integrated with Fitbit removes all excuses. Easy to log your intake, my Fitbit is well tuned as verified by GPS comparison and it’s uncanny. The morning 2.5ish mile dog walk and then various activities during the day and I peg about 2,700 calories out every day within just s few calories.

      Check out the numbers. Averaging 192 grams protein daily, just a few grams over total body weight. Hilariously, carbs average to 119 per day, one gram under Atkins’ original upper limit definition of Low Carb. There’s almost no added fat in there but for maybe a few TBS olive oil as salad dressing. The rest is from the food and it’s plenty.

      Most important is the caloric deficit of about 800 per day on average, plus that it’s made very easy via the high protein. The reason for the red on the graph is that my caloric target is 1,800 daily. However, I’m also burning 200 more than usual cause vacation activities more than sitting at a computer.

      (Note: I had reported that yesterday was a 1,200 cal day, but I did so before staying up until 1:30am and having a half PB&J and cup of whole milk for 400 cal. But, since it was just only after midnight but before bedtime, I thought it best to log it as yesterday rather than today.)

      13 pounds down since mid-April. So, this is how it’s done, at least for me.

    • thhq on June 17, 2017 at 05:32

      Good job. That’s about how deficits worked for me, too. A steady 2 lb a week loss for 6 months, starting out obese, on 1000 cal/day deficits. At the end the deficits were achieved mainly with exercise because I was eating more. Hunger with a vengeance.

      Look out for muscle wasting. I lost shoulder and arm muscle mass because I did all the exercise with my legs.

  6. Nils on June 17, 2017 at 04:22

    I’m with you Richard,

    I really like Mark Scisson, he seems reasonable, has been shown to integrate new insights (he even updated his stance on legumes, albeit somewhat begrudgingly) and he definitely shows a good example (I mean, he’s in his sixties and is in a better shape than anyone I know) and has a nice holistic view. But his renewed interest in keto has all been a marketing ploy for his upcoming book as far as I can tell.

    Ketosis is starvation, it has nothing to do with high-fat or even worse with spiking ketones via MCT oils or what have you. If his ‘reset’is some kind of extended fast – which will naturally induce ketosis – then Im all for it. But jumping through hoops to create some artificial deficiency in carbs and protein by devicing a diet that’s not found anywhere in the real world seems far fetched and has nothing to do with his evolutionary approach.

    • LaFrite on June 17, 2017 at 04:39

      That’s why the bulletproof dude is using the term “biohacks”. It conveys the idea that it is not really natural in the sense of traditional but still possible given the workings of our bio-physiology. These guys are good marketeers! But to experiment with these hacks is at your own risk. I am sure Sisson et al put a big disclaimer before advising others to do the same …

    • Richard Nikoley on June 17, 2017 at 06:26

      Nils:

      See the 2nd para. (The first is in reference to the Inuit CPT-1A mutation).

    • Richard Nikoley on June 17, 2017 at 06:30

      Frite:

      Did you see? Dave is finally getting into the probiotics market? 😉

      http://inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/newsroom/food-recall-warnings/complete-listing/2017-06-15/eng/1497591814406/1497591816786

      I can just see his response to the authorities: “What, didn’t you guys read the label? It’s Bulletproof.”

    • Nils on June 17, 2017 at 07:22

      @Richard: So these people are then treating themselves medically for their self-inflicted ‘nutritional’ ketosis? 😉

      Good find!

      Also, what does nutritional ketosis even mean? It’s the scientific term, but keto-pushers piggyback on the positive connotations with the term ‘nutritional’ as if it were something healthy, rather than the real meaning of being induced by diet. A false connotation they gladly keep alive.

    • thhq on June 17, 2017 at 07:51

      This sounds like a fad for Los Gatos billionaires. Make it wonky enough and they will come.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 17, 2017 at 08:32

      It’s actually a sly, vicious, word connotation ploy.

      It should be called “the child and adolescent epilepsy diet,” because that’s exactly what it is.

      What they really mean is that it’s an energy balance diet, as differentiated from a calorically restricted diet.

      Do they ever explain this?

      No.

      Why?

      Because the asshole shysters know exactly what they’re doing. They are relying on connotation via ignorance. They know very well that people will get the [false] impression that it’s a highly nutritious diet when precisely the exact opposite is true (fat has no vitamins and mineral to speak of).

      It’s a viscous, despicable, immoral con desiged from the marketing get-go to fool its victims.

    • thhq on June 17, 2017 at 12:04

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1198735/

      4% mortality in the Kang study. Amateur diet wonks think of ketosis as edgy and hip. But when used as epilepsy therapy it’s the last resort. A children’s version of the Bataan Death March.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 17, 2017 at 12:45

      Won’t matter to them. They’ll just say that mortality would have been higher without the ketogenic diet, which may very well be true, but misses the point.

    • Tim Steele on June 17, 2017 at 14:05

      That’s a great find, Richard…Bulletproof Listeria Bars. I remember Asprey chastising you a while back because you said that some mycotixins might actually be good for us, his has always been, “no pathogens, ever. Avoid pathogens at all cost!” Finally he sells a product that actually might increase the immune system, lol.

    • linkdrop on June 17, 2017 at 14:15

      Oh Tim. Please say it’s not so. Have you gone ketarded with ‘The Potatogenic Diet’? 🙂

    • linkdrop on June 17, 2017 at 14:31

      Hi Tim, thanks for pointing out #fakeketosis btw.

      Quick question on the potato hack though, can I supplement with whey while hacking with potatoes? I will try anyway and let you know the results. You see, I have beautiful lean body mass that I spent thousands of hours and dollars achieving and do not want to risk losing any of this beautiful lean body mass.

    • hap on June 17, 2017 at 17:03

      The diet may also be useful in other extreme circumstances such grade 4 GBM…..or training for Everest summit attempts.

      Fasted state or ketosis could be helpful…..short term…..prior to chemotherapy.

    • La Frite on June 19, 2017 at 01:17

      @Richard

      Hahahaha, hilarious!!! LOL

    • pzo on June 19, 2017 at 06:45

      @linkdrop: I bet the chicks are really drawn to your oversized conceit. Wow.

    • JP on June 19, 2017 at 07:19

      “I mean, he’s in his sixties and is in a better shape than anyone I know”

      Sisson may very well be taking “supplements” like testosterone, HGH, etc.. so I wouldn’t base my assessment on his looks. Dave Asprey admits that the does TRT and a several other performance-enhancing drugs.

    • linkdrop on June 19, 2017 at 09:26

      @pzo, thankyou. My success has been moderate so far however, I do try and make myself better every day in whatever way I can.

    • ramon on June 19, 2017 at 09:28

      Mark admitted he was taking testosterone therapy to Dave on the air.

      Good thing all of my bulletproof bars are old, having sat in the pantry a few months un-eaten. I do like one about once a month.

    • Nils on June 19, 2017 at 14:55

      @JP @ ramon

      I had no idea nor had I ever given it any though, though now that you mention it it isn’t very surprising. Especially for a guy like Mark who is held to extreme standards (which oddly his ‘peer’ Jimmy is not).

    • JP on June 19, 2017 at 21:40

      Nils, it’s also worth noting that Doug Graham, a fruitarian who’s about the same age as Sisson, is also impressive on an extremely different diet:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhW0ENr6YXA

      For the record, I’m not promoting/defending fruitarians or primal lifestylers (or whatever Sissonians are called these days). Just pointing out that you can’t judge a diet or “lifestyle” by their gurus.

    • Nils on June 20, 2017 at 09:03

      JP Interesting guy. I think it ties in with what Richard and others have been saying for a long time. A healthy diet is composed of minimally processed / refined foods, macros are incidental (if I may paraphrase a well-known doctor). That’s what Sission mostly advocates – except in the case with ketosis, which is not feasibly achievable without resorting to ‘fat bombs’ and other highly refined foods (as natural high fat foods are usually too high in carbs/protein for maintaining ketosis).

    • Tim Steele on June 20, 2017 at 09:57

      Nils – Your last sentence is missing a few words. “That’s what Sission mostly advocates – except in the case with ketosis, which is not feasibly achievable without resorting to ‘fat bombs’ and other highly refined foods (as natural high fat foods are usually too high in carbs/protein for maintaining ketosis…WHILE OVEREATING AND GAINING WEIGHT)”

      That’s the rub with all this keto stuff. It’s only burning your body fat if you are undereating your maintenance level of total calories. The fact you are in ketosis has absolutely nothing to do with fat loss if you are eating more than you burn off.

  7. Bret on June 17, 2017 at 15:44

    Keep on keeping on, Richard.

    For what it’s worth, I get it now. Even though it took me a while. Jimmy is running an empire of bullshit, and he’s managed to get the lion’s share of the low-carb and paleo “experts” kissing his ass and reinforcing him.

    That unfortunately includes people I used to respect. And they shouldn’t be spared confrontation with the truth, either. Enablers are accomplices.

    Jimmy Moore doesn’t have to go broke and withdraw in humiliation. He can quit being a closed-minded shithead, and admit he’s been wrong. He can still have a livelihood, even if it requires him to do what the rest of us do and earn money by providing value to others (rather than snake oil). Hell, he might even drop a few pounds in the process, permanently this time. But he won’t do that as long as he is making money advertising trademarked junk food to despondent, clueless people.

    Whether he realizes it or not, he is taking advantage of those people’s pitiable condition. They are desperate as hell for a fix to the problems that have tortured them for most of their lives, and look how many doktorz agree with Jimmy! This guy is definitely on to something…otherwise, why would so many people with letters after their names be coming onto his show and praising him? I’ve been there before, and am so glad to have moved past that mentality. Jimmy skips criticism for all of this by playing the victim card and crying “fat shaming.” That makes him a selfish, immoral piece of shit, and he deserves full throttle criticism, no holding back, until he changes.

    Back to his enablers, they are, wittingly or not, consciously or not, participating in this scam, through a combination of ignorance and ass kissing. The whole charade reeks of politics, where it’s more important to know people than it is to know what you’re talking about and what you’re doing. I want nothing to do with a system like that. A system in that state has already accomplished anything useful it ever will, and can only endure by converting into a model of brand loyalty profiteering…truth be damned, standards be damned, results be damned.

    With that, there is an admirable selflessness to what you are doing. Whereas the aforementioned goons are placing their own social status above their ethical duty to tell the plain truth, you are doing the opposite. Giving up the search for truth and cozying up to popular people is the easy way out. It’s what stupid high school teenagers do, and those people never amount to anything. How people think it’s somehow different in adulthood, I’ll never understand.

    Fuck all those people in the ear. The legions of desperate fat and sick people out there deserve better. Keep ramrodding the truth, no matter how much resistance you meet. Where there’s resistance to that approach, there is dishonesty and fear. Dishonesty and fear cannot help people out of their obesity and illness. Only honesty and courage can.

    My hat is off to you, sir. Carry on. Cheers.

    • ramon on June 19, 2017 at 11:53

      Jimmy’s business model is not too dissimilar to an religious evangelist feeding on poor peoples emotions.

      ramon

    • Richard Nikoley on June 19, 2017 at 12:00

      Ramon:

      I wrote this yesterday:

      Luis Villasenor Yep. Also, there is a certain religious, “born again,” let me share the good news aspect.

      Jesus will forgive your sins. Works are meaningless. You just have to ask sincerely.

      But just as this sort of thing attracts a lot of sociopathic butt fuckers to those sorts of churches, it attracts lots of gluttons to the various LC/Keto sects of diet.

      You mean, I don’t have to work at it? I don’t have to count calories or ever go a bit hungry? And I can eat as much fat as I want, as long as I cut carb to nil and keep protein low?

      Where do I sign up so I can help spread the good news.

      And just as in church where the worst are often the best at energizing and proselytizing the narrative message, so these gurus get lots of followers who do all their work for them.

      https://www.facebook.com/richard.nikoley/posts/470194579979614?comment_id=470262663306139&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D

    • Hap on June 20, 2017 at 07:29

      I believe I saw a small notice that Jason Fung put some separation between himself and Jimmy.

  8. Nocona on June 20, 2017 at 11:28

    Jimmy Assprey/Dave Moore. Which is which and who is who? I’ll take mine with a side of fucksterruck.

    Go get ’em tiger!

  9. Robert on June 20, 2017 at 13:05

    I started to watch a documentary on Netflix today, “What the health”. It turned out to be some vegan propaganda, some of the most dishonest, biased and stupidest I’ve seen. I turned it off half way.

    But one thing struck me: the arguments are eerily similar to low carb propaganda, just reversed. You could basically just switch the buzz words, and it would fit perfectly for a keto believer.

    Their comments for all the recent studies showing dairy and saturated fats aren’t causing heart attacks? It’s all a conspiracy​, funded by the dairy industry. Exactly what low carbers say about studies showing that sugar might not kill you: it’s all a conspiracy founded by big sugar and coca cola.

    • Bret on June 22, 2017 at 03:38

      Just about every Netflix dietary doc I’ve ever seen has turned out to be vegetarian propaganda. The only two exceptions that come to mind are Food, Inc and Fat Head.

      I don’t even bother starting them anymore, unless I’ve gotten word about one in particular from a good source, which is rare.

    • Robert on June 22, 2017 at 22:34

      True that Bret, there’s plenty of documentaries that on the surface look interesting, but then they turn out to be vegan propaganda. But there’s one exception that recently was made available in my country​: Pollan’s “In defense of food”. That one was really good

  10. thhq on June 21, 2017 at 13:31

    You may not have run into the work of Dr. Sippy richard, but he is in some respects the godfather of ketotardism. Most certainly he is Asprey’s progenitor. All dairy fat, all the time.

    http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(05)00358-6/abstract

    As with the epileptic ketogenic diet, the Sippy diet was developed as a therapy, for stomach ulcers. The major drawback is that it doesn’t work as a long term therapy.

    Given his relatively short lifetime, I’m inclined to dump Sippy and his stupid diet into the Adele Davis and Steve Jobs category of “avoid this diet at all costs”.

    • Bret on June 22, 2017 at 03:57

      “Given his relatively short lifetime,”

      It should be interesting, and sad, to watch these VLC/KG gurus advance in age. If their diet is so damned healthy, it shouldn’t kill them off until well beyond the average American life expectancy. Roughly 81 for females, and 76 for males.

      Dr. Robert Su comes to mind, of the ‘Carbohydrates Can Kill’ podcast. After throwing around heavy propaganda about healthy foods and deadly foods, he died at age 70.

      Some of these folks will surely leave us well before that, considering how extreme their diets are and how poorly their bodies are handling them.

  11. lenny on June 21, 2017 at 16:57

    Hey Richard, Mark wrote a post recommending some people should not go keto but to me it implies it’s ok for everyone else.

    Tom took you out of his blogroll.

    BTW, any comments on Dr. Andreas that has become a ketomaniac?

    • Richard Nikoley on June 21, 2017 at 18:08

      Mark at least listens. We’ll see what his book says. He’s in contact with Luis Villasenor of Ketogains, people who do it right. Here’s what I wrote in the group this morning about that.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/ketotarded/permalink/122312101699345/

      ~~~

      A quick note and I’ll have more to say about it in a future, substantive blog post.

      Don’t make the mistake of assuming I’m doing this group to slam ketogenic dieting. Quite the contrary, since all successful fat-loss dieting is ketogenic, even low-fat. There are simply different approaches to maintaining a dietary intake deficit so that the rest of the energy balance equation can be made up primarily with body fat.

      One of those approaches is named Ketogains, and its validity is in its combination of adequate to high protein for lean gains (and, similar to Leangains for those familiar) in a dietary caloric deficit (the Keto part) so you can guard or gain lean mass while losing body fat.

      So, check out https://www.facebook.com/groups/ketogains/ and it’s founder, Luis Villasenor.
      I’m doing this group in order to motivate people to do a proper and not fake Keto diet with fat loss as the primary goal, even if they want to be vegan low fat. There’s always pea protein. 😉

      What I will relentlessly mock and ridicule until it’s a quivering pile of jello in a puddle of tears is the KeotCon, KetoSyster crap out there that, as far as I can tell, is the predominate trend hijacked by the “calories don’t count” and “just eat more fat” crowds out there because something for nothing is always an effective sales pitch.

      ~~~

      As for Andreas, I’m been mocking that disappointment of a shyster for a while on FB, working on a blog post now, where he’s the star or the show.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 21, 2017 at 18:14

      …Oh, Tom took me off his blogroll?

      I hope all sellouts, whores, and Jimmy Moore ass kissers do likewise. Nobody so obviously kisses Jimmy Moore ass Moore than Tom Naughton. Huge disappointment as well. Couldn’t even watch his presentation (too much really dumb argument) for his new kid’s book that was revealed on the recent LC cruise–where all speakers are fucking stupid enough to do it without pay, pay their own travel, and even pay full price for their cruise (which shyster Jimmy gets a cut of) plus uses these folks as draw to get all the attendees.

    • Bret on June 22, 2017 at 04:36

      Tom says he wants to stay out of the Jimmy Moore stuff, but then he defends the guy vehemently by repeating Jimmy’s own propaganda. Paraphrased [bracketed snark mine]: “His body is too damaged from years of abuse [like 15+ yrs ago] to lose weight […even though he lost a shitload back in 2013/14]. He’s given up on weight now and is focusing solely on health [on a diet in every way the EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE of any appreciable human genetic adaptation…never mind the goal post shifting].”

      If I had a friend making poor choices whom I could not coax back into sanity, then when commenters on my blog forced the issue, I would either disapprove their comments, or reply with “That’s Jimmy’s business; we’re not going to gossip about it here,” or not reply at all. But Tom seems bent on helping Jimmy promulgate that nonsensical narrative.

      I think he is just trying to “be a friend,” but there are ways to do that without sacrificing your own credibility.

    • thhq on June 22, 2017 at 14:15

      I lost 50 lbs, mostly fat, eating lots of carbs and never being in ketosis. The main fat metabolism mechanism generates acyl CoA not ketones.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism

      Deficits are more sustainable if you veer towards more protein, but the weight loss still results from the deficits.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 22, 2017 at 18:00

      Depends on how rapidly you lost the 50 pounds. At about 600kcal average daily deficit, you’re almost certain to be in mild ketosis.

      Endogenous ketones from body fat have nothing to do with macros, everything to do with significantly less energy intake as compared to output.

    • thhq on June 22, 2017 at 18:52

      It’s kind of a stretch to call every effective weight loss diet a ketosis diet richard. It marginalizes the ultra low carb diets which fuel the body primarily on ketones from fat, rather than normal acyl CoA from fat. Especially if the calorie deficits are derived from high exercise, with food calories well above BMR levels. Under those conditions normal metabolic routes would be expected rather than ketosis. My opinion anyway, haven’t hit the nih studies to verify.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 22, 2017 at 20:18

      Well I used to believe that until we saw tons of people reporting deep purple ketosis on the potato hack a few years back, which is potatoes and seasoning only, no fat, so like 9o% carb. It was obviously the cal def.

      My suspicion is that it’s not going to be much noticeable until several days at a significant deficit, say 600+ kcal. Probably why some didn’t experience it. They were able to eat enough plain potato to get closer to energy balance.

    • thhq on June 22, 2017 at 20:44

      Here’s an extensive NIH review on ketones in dieting, which confirms what you say: ketones are always present. Levels increase during any elevated fat metabolism, whether from exercise or calorie restriction. Instead of using ketostix, breath acetone levels are measured.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4737348/

      Just a rough gleaning of the multiple studies here shows normal breath acetone in the 1-2 ppm range, ketosis weight loss diet ba in the 40 ppm range, and childhood epileptic ketosis diet ba in the 300-400 ppm range. Ketoacidosis sends ba up above 1000 ppm.

      Looks like a $200 gizmo if you want to do some home tests.

      https://greenfieldfitnesssystems.com/product/ketonix-breath-ketone-monitor/

    • Richard Nikoley on June 22, 2017 at 21:53

      What I find rather amusing about the paper is that I didn’t see them explain WHY subjects on HFLC had higher BrAce than those on mixed diets.

      Duh, if they’re in caloric restriction, then all dietary intake is being metabolized (body fat enlistment and consequent ketones will be the same for both groups), but the LHCF group has four times as much dietary fat, also a source of ketones, so total ketones are different, but it’s a dietary factor, not greater fat loss.

      In one of the trials described, the HFCL group lost twice as much WEIGHT as the mixed controls on same cal def, but no mention of ratio of water to fat, and the study was only one week. Even in a cal def, I’m pretty sure that while there is glycogen depletion going on for everyone, probably quite a bit more rapid in the first week for an LC group.

      Interesting. Thanks.

    • La Frite on June 23, 2017 at 01:33

      Not to sound too pedantic about all this hardly relevant matter, but as far as I know, ketone bodies start to be produced because of a deficit in glucose that usually covers the brain needs. The problem is that even though ketone production is ramped up fairly early during starvation, they are not used efficiently right away. Muscles will use some, and some will be excreted in the urine. It’s only after a while (the so-called keto-adaptation phase) that most ketone bodies are used by the brain, while muscles can happily use fatty acids.

      So to ramp up ketone production in the liver, one only needs a deficit in glucose (whether dietary or produced endogenously from other sources such as amino acids).

      OK, what this all means is that if you feed the brain with enough glucose (100g / 120g per day) and still end up in a caloric deficit, you won’t be in ketosis. However, you can’t really know where your dietary glucose really end up, just that the brain takes the lion’s share – muscles like it too you know and any cell can burn instead of fat).

    • thhq on June 23, 2017 at 04:40

      The nih article is a compilation so you have to draw your own conclusions, unless you read all the studies that went into it. To Richard’s point, fat metabolism always produces ketones as a byproduct. But there are a number of factors you can manipulate ketones with. For the HCLF weight loss diet I was on, effective 0.5 lb per week fat loss occurs at 2 ppm ba, and under extreme conditions might peak at 8 ppm ba. For someone on a LCHF weight loss diet, 20-30 ppm ba would be normal.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 23, 2017 at 06:57

      Frite

      I prefer to keep the definition fundamental enough as to cover all normal humanity, so that means ketosis is defined as any measure that increases ketone levels substantially above baseline.

      – fasting
      – calorie restriction
      – epileptic diet (the way to do it without the fasting or cal def)

      Everyone in the hype right now, with a few exceptions (Ketogains), focuses on the third, ignores or explicitly shuns the two primary means for most humans.

      You start getting into efficient use of them by brain and muscles, then the definition is all over the map, which is why some people respond differently to them than others in normal settings.

      I suspect that with adequate fasting time though, say 3-4 days and beyond, then individual varieties begin to converge into base metabolic instinct.

    • La Frite on June 23, 2017 at 07:36

      @Richard

      I agree. The problem I see is the term “nutritional ketosis – NK” (I believe it was coined by Phinney and Volek, but I might be wrong).

      For me ketosis is a sign of a metabolic state which we usually call starvation. And that’s where NK collides with that: you can eat more than your caloric needs in the form of almost pure fat and still be in what should be a starvation mode, metabolically speaking. It looks like a glitch of Nature because Nature did not foresee that some species (us) would be able to devise ways to have as many calories as one could desire in the form of fats.

      Try to eat tons of nuts (fatty stuff), that would also include a LOT of proteins.
      Try to eat gallons of milk to come close to the fat content of a stick of butter … good luck.

      I think the “semantic damage” has already been done thanks to idiots like J. Moore et al
      It will take some time to fix things but again, I don’t really care, I got out of this rabbit hole a long time ago and you are doing a good job in exposing all this BS 😀

    • thhq on June 23, 2017 at 10:08

      frite, right now I’m in a controlled hazelnut eating study at LPI. I’m doing my stint as a lab rat for the sponsor Hazelnut Growers.

      For 16 weeks I eat 2 oz of nuts a day, along with restricting vitamin e and Mg foods. There’s a page-long list.

      If I were a ketotard this would be as forbidden as someone halal or kosher eating pork chops.

      It’s one thing to have a religious objection to a food. It’s quite another to follow a fake religion that won’t allow you to eat healthy human foods.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 23, 2017 at 11:55

      NK is simply the child and adolescent epilepsy diet from the 1920s under a different name.

      Study up on that. Even highly managed, with supplements, as a serious clinical intervention, serious problems crop up, including death.

  12. Marc on June 21, 2017 at 19:29

    Richard,
    The “commisions” in the travel/hospitality industry are huge business and literally drive the industry. Low carb cruises and weekend semiars are HUGE business..?
    Im in the industry….trust me.

    Jimmy fatmoore and his ilk are now making huge money in their cruises and hotel based trainings.
    Please keep this in mind folk when spending your earnings on these experiences……

    My dad used to say small is beautiful…. stick to very small group counts formthese types of ventures…thats where the real folkmhang out ….just my experience and 2 cents

  13. EatLessMoveMoore on June 23, 2017 at 06:25

    Hi Richard. Well I’m glad to see you’ve finally come around and left the Church of Jimmy. Took long enough but, hell, it’s never too late to be vindicated – or do the right thing.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 23, 2017 at 07:06

      That actually happened here, May 21, 2015.

      https://freetheanimal.com/2015/05/jimmy-moore-webpire.html

      I didn’t make an extended campaign about it as I was too busy with other stuff, but I never touted nor defended him again. And now, my main focus is still not Jimmy, but the ketotardedness in general and he’s only one player in that.

      There are bigger ones. Check out Dr. Nally’s site, docmuscles, I think. Go to the product page to the $6,000 “get into ketosis” package.

    • Limey on June 25, 2017 at 20:29

      This is so cool. ELMM is back on FTA. Please stay. Richard needs an antagonist to sharpen his wit on.

  14. Kris on June 25, 2017 at 07:23

    @LaFrite
    Don’t think it is a glitch of nature at all. Perhaps HF diet and ketosis is designed to both store fat and then metabolize that fat to both keep warm and sustain life when needed. I’m thinking of the Intuit whose diet was mostly blubber at times.

    It could also be why many initially lose quickly on a LCHF diet but after settling in and metabolism switches over, find themselves more in a store fat and conservation mode.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 25, 2017 at 08:39

      Fist of all, the Inuit have never been clinically measure in ketosis, ever, and actually have a genetic mutation that prevents it.

      Here, 17 posts all about it.

      https://freetheanimal.com/2014/11/leaving-behind-hormesis.html

      See the image for how Chris Masterjohn addresses it.

      I wrote this on my “Ketotard Chronicles” group on Facebook the other day.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/ketotarded/permalink/123277798269442/

      Let’s draw a brutal distinction.

      Whenever anyone says “get fat adapted,” run the other way because they are spouting stinky bullshit for suckers, dupes, and their marks (target market).

      Stop and think about the absurdity of it. Your body has been metabolizing fat since even before you were born. I doubt the “placenta diet” is particularly low fat.

      The ruse emerges when the ketoshysters blithely and conveniently allow folks to believe they’re obese, overweight, or struggling with undesirable weight gain as they age because they lack some lost primal imperative to really be some so-called fat burner.

      To further explore the illogic in that, the body’s dietary burn hierarchy is:

      Alcohol –> Carbohydrate –> Protein –> Fat

      How exactly do you become this great human fat-burning specimen that violates metabolic pathways?
      Just understanding that simple dietary pecking order ought to be enough to reason on your own that it’s all semantic word play, i.e., bullshit for money. Moreover, one ought to be able to reason why fat is the last priority in an evolutionary context. Remember it: so that it’s easily stored in circumstances of energy abundance, a savings account for rainy days. They didn’t have EBT cards.

      The only certain way to be metabolizing all of your dietary fat and not storing some of it instead is to eat to need on average. You have to log calories, check the bathroom scale, or feel how your clothes fit and back off as needed (backing off can also ameliorate water retention issues). Eating more fat to burn more fat is a fool’s errand, and the ketogenic work around is just silly. Don’t drink too much, go nearly nil on carb, moderate protein significantly, and since you’ve now reached the end of the dietary food chain, fat is the only thing left, so eat lots of the thing that’s more than twice as energy dense as the others and up to three times more dense than protein because of its TEF (thermal effect…a metabolic heat wasting inefficiency…where the true, highly touted “metabolic advantage” exists).

      Nothing ever proposed in dietary wooo is more fucktarded in my view. It’s enough to make a raw vegan skeleton blush.

      So, what’s this “fat adaptation” all about, then? Well, it’s easy to get them to believe there’s something to it because so many feel badly when starting on this abomination so they think “I’m not fat adapted.”

      This is a fucking vicious and outright lie, through and through. Our bodies are masters at handling dietary fat, fat storage, and body fat enlistment.

      So, then, what is it you are truly getting used to? Grasshoppers. You’re adapting to glucose starvation and it’s not pretty for a good reason. It’s not supposed to be a primary pathway. It’s a backup pathway, to keep you alive when there’s not enough food of any kind.

      Don’t take this to mean I am anti-low carb or Keto. I myself am LC by Atkins original definition <120g. Hilariously, I recently averaged out my food log over two months and even though I'll have 200-300g carb days, on average, it comes out to 119g daily. Ha!

      And I was just in true ketosis for a good full day. By true ketosis, I mean that every ketone was from body fat. How do I know? Zero calorie fast for 39 hours.

      In the end, the Ketoshysters want you to eat more fat at the expense of actual nutrition (fat has almost zero vitamin/mineral) because by doing that you "burn more fat" and just look at your measuring devices! Ketones. And they'll even sell you ketones to drink, so that you can look at your measuring devices and say "yep, there's ketones in them there $30 bags."

      None of this has fuckall to do with metabolizing bodyfat and has everything to do with despicable ketoshysters making money off your misfortune and ignorance.

      Be smarter than that. Then spread the word. There are tens of thousands of victims out there and it's a growing list. They need your helpful exposure of this KetoCon.

    • Robert on June 25, 2017 at 09:18

      Thanks Richard, the best summary of keto madness I’ve seen. The logic is sharp, very sharp.

      I recently stumbled upon optimisingnutrition.com, hadn’t checked it for a while. Wow, amazing articles over the last month about protein. Turns out protein is the most nutritious macronutrient even… And key for reducing hunger… I encourage everyone to read the articles, it’s deep stuff.

    • La Frite on June 25, 2017 at 10:09

      Well said Richard. Just a little issue with your “fuel hierarchy”, it’s alcohol -> proteins -> carbs -> fat

      This is according to the size of each fuel’s respective body stores:
      – none for alcohol
      – a little pool of amino acids for proteins (lasts at most 24h)
      – glycogen stores (muscles / liver – maybe 2000 kCal at most)
      – fat about everywhere (skin, etc, near infinity 😀 ).

    • La Frite on June 25, 2017 at 10:11

      @Kris

      I don’t know. The Inuits eat a lot of proteins and can’t be in ketosis (at least some of them).
      For fat to be used for body heat, you need so-called brown adipose tissue. White adipose, the large part of our body store, can hardly be converted to brown (unlike in say rats) but it can be entrained if you live in very cold latitudes and need the heat …

    • Richard Nikoley on June 25, 2017 at 10:40

      “it’s alcohol -> proteins -> carbs -> fat”

      Uh, nope. Carbs begin the digestion process in your mouth. They’re long absorbed before protein is fully dealt with.

    • thhq on June 25, 2017 at 13:20

      Among three Inuit populations eating traditional animal diets there is no ketosis.

      http://www.jbc.org/content/80/2/461.full.pdf

      The high protein diets are antiketogenic, both by the urine and breath test. They could be put in a ketogenic state by fasting, but not by their normal high calorie diet.

      It’s interesting that the breath test in 1928 was subjective. The ketobreath test, something type one diabetics are always mindful of.

    • thhq on June 26, 2017 at 06:07

      Just read through your 2014 blog post that covers this study. 3 individuals, not 3 populations.

      Living on a high protein, high calorie diet did not compromise Inuit’s insulin sensitivity. They had no issues processing glucose at all, even though their diet was low in it. They still functioned like normal omnivorous humans.

      I suspect that the same is not true of chronic ketotards. If you go about perpetually mimicking the bloodwork of a Type 1 diabetic, you will get diabetic results. I would expect the results shown with Inuits coming off the 3 day fast, or any diabetic, with uncontrolled blood glucose spiking in response to carbohydrates.

      Robert Atkins comes to mind. What happens to a chronic ketotard who has an accident and goes to the hospital? How does someone who has intentionally made themself glucose intolerant respond when they plug in the glucose IV drip? IMO you couldn’t kill them faster with strychnine.

    • thhq on June 26, 2017 at 06:53
  15. Kris on June 25, 2017 at 10:50

    @LaFrite

    Didn’t necessarily mean it had anything to do with ketosis. I have always felt that a high fat and or high protein diet triggers the body to store fat. It can be hardwiring that says food is scarce. It can be climate. It can be the way it is metabolized which again may indicate something to the body which is being interpreted a certain way. Idk either… just a hunch.

    Another thought- it may not be ketosis perse that creates the magic. Could it be a correlation thing – if eating is inflammatory, perhaps refraining is therapeutic. Or the lack of brain excitatory processes that may exist in a processed diet may have a therapeutic effect since most people interested in ketosis eat a high quality whole foods diet.

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