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Ketogenic Fruit Hack?

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On the heels of my latest post, I want to toss out a falsifying idea.

The idea that needs falsifying, again and all the time, is the notion that low carbohydrate dietary intake is required to measure ketones such that you’re considered “in ketosis.”

  1. Nothing gets you into ketosis faster than not eating anything
  2. You can get into very deep ketosis on a 100% pure sugar diet, provided you aren’t eating enough sugar

These are very important distinctions and the ignorance of them, promotion of the ignorance, making money off the ignorance, and doing fucktarded videos for fucktards—like jimmy moore and “Dr.” Adam Nally do—is what I’m about right now.

I can’t get fucking Tom Naughton to help—he can viscerally tolerate the sight of Jimmy with his shirt off—so I’m on my own.

This is not a critique of Low Carb. This is a critique of larceny and obfuscation going back decades, perpetuated by low carbers.

They should have just said:

  1. Keep the carbs low
  2. Don’t worry about the fat
  3. Keep the protein pretty high
  4. You’re likely to end up eating less, less often, and so you could lose fat weight because of eating less, less often

But no. No, fuck no! It’s gotta be Fuckin’ Magic.

It was always stupid fucking magic.

But here’s the deal and where the cleverness and larceny come in.

  1. Ketones are a by-product of fat metabolism, both dietary fat and body fat
  2. Ergo, we can sell the shit out of eating hyper-high fat and drinking ketones and we can also sell test strips and people can prove to themselves they have ketogenic levels of ketones even if they are stuffing their faces and gaining weight
  3. We can sell this to gluttons, especially to older fat ladies who can never seem to lose weight

This could be number 4, but it requires certain emphasis because it sheds light on the core evil of charlatans like jimmy moore and “Doc” Nally:

The trick is in the low carb, high fat, and limited protein. Protein is not really a limit because of gluconeogenesis kicking them out of ketosis.

The reason these evil shysters like Moore and Nally want you to limit protein is because it risks displacing fat intake—low carb being an easy given in the paradigm—and displacing fat intake with highly satiating protein risks you not showing ketones if you’re stuffing your fucking face like a moron while helping Jimmy and Adam be evil fucks in various places on the Internet.

Being in the Device Club—able to post pics of your LCD screen in approved fashion—is paramount. It’s part of the evil marketing strategy.

Don’t be a ketotard.

…Ever do a potato hack? I have. Tim Steele has the goods there. It’s a fun experiment of 5 days or so. Because of its low protein, I would not recommend it for longer than that, unless obese. Then, months are fine, because preservation of lean mass is not a concern. You already have plenty by virtue of hauling around your own fat ass.

A few days ago I bought a bunch of fruit: watermelon, apples, oranges, apricots, peaches, and nectarines. Plus, a tub of dates. It’s all I have been eating the past couple of days and it turns out it’s pretty damn similar to the potato hack. It turns out for me that when I’m done for the day, even though I don’t feel that same satisfaction I get from a ribeye steak or pork chop, that I’m OK. I don’t want any more. And, it turns out so far, it’s in the 1,300 – 1,500 calorie range, which is 800-1,000 off my average maintenance.

Am I in ketosis? Of course, and I don’t need test strips. That level of caloric deficit will always have you in ketosis, no matter what you are eating.

Not only does low carb have nothing to do with it, I’m shoving it in your face as a falsifying object lesson.

Stop. Being. Fucking. Stupid.

Richard Nikoley

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free The Animal began in 2003 and as of 2021, contains 5,000 posts. I blog what I wish...from health, diet, and food to travel and lifestyle; to politics, social antagonism, expat-living location and time independent—while you sleep—income. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances. Read More

42 Comments

  1. Susan George on August 24, 2017 at 03:21

    Amazing source of knowledge on ketognic diet. Applause for you

  2. Chris on August 23, 2017 at 14:49

    Fantastic. That will confuse people.

  3. Nocona on August 23, 2017 at 16:06

    Thanks for the succinct post, Richard. If he doesn’t get his act together soon I’m gonna start calling him, “Tom AughtNaughton”. You already know what I think of JM.

  4. Charles on August 23, 2017 at 16:21

    It’s not possible to overeat fruit. If you think it is – how many bananas can you eat at one sitting?

    • Bobby on August 23, 2017 at 17:43

      Zero. I can eat a whole watermelon though.



    • Tim Steele on August 26, 2017 at 09:23

      MMmmmm…watermelon. 10 pounds of it only has 1400 calories…same as 7 oz of butter.



    • JP on August 29, 2017 at 04:56

      Well, it may be possible if you drink smoothies with 10 bananas and added sugar, like DurianRider. He stays skinny (he’s an active biker/runner), but some have actually gained weight on the “30 Bananas a Day” approach. However, I agree it’s pretty difficult to overeat unless you’re drinking mega-smoothies or eating a lot of dried (concentrated) fruit.



  5. lis on August 23, 2017 at 16:49

    With the fight coming up this weekend and McGregor being in the news I have come to think he has the most perfect male physique. I of course googled to see what he eats. He eats protein and … oh my.. fruit!!

    “What does McGregor’s diet look like? “I don’t eat a lot of carbs – if I do it’s something like sweet potatoes,” he told AskMen.com. “I eat good meat – chicken, salmon, some steak – and a lot of quality greens and some fruits like bananas. I eat eggs – an omelet with my Americano for a late breakfast or brunch. Getting enough protein is important when I train, to help build muscle and recover, so I’ll supplement with protein shakes. I drink mostly water or coconut water. It’s important to stay hydrated – first thing I do in the morning is stretch and drink water. ”

    From another article:
    “His coach John Kavanagh previously posted a picture of the fridge in a Las Vegas Mansion where McGregor’s team were preparing the 26-year-old Dubliner for his fight with Jose Aldo last year.

    Their fridge holds salmon, chicken, steak, fruit and veg.

    Kavanagh said: “That’s what a fridge looks like for a bunch of smart primates. Salmon, chicken, steak, fruit and veg. That’s it.

    “If you think we’ve bread in this house then you’ve not been paying attention.”

    • Richard Nikoley on August 23, 2017 at 19:11

      Oh, this weekend? Should be interesting. I’ve always thought McGregor has the edge.



  6. Patrick on August 23, 2017 at 17:36

    “They should have just said:

    Keep the carbs low
    Don’t worry about the fat
    Keep the protein pretty high
    You’re likely to end up eating less, less often, and so you could lose fat weight because of eating less, less often”

    Boom! There is your money shot. I still eat like that and I have maintained a 60+ pound weight loss for over a year. I wanted to lose 80 – but the calories I eat naturally on this diet keep my weight static at 20 pounds higher than I desire. How will I lose the last 20? Maybe a potato hack……..whatever gives me a calorie deficit. No magic.

    • Tim Steele on August 26, 2017 at 09:38

      This is exactly how I have been eating the last 5-6 years and maintaining my weight perfectly. This morning a big bowl of oat groats with honey and a piece of cheese. For lunch and dinner there will be salmon and pork, probably a potato or two, and some homegrown tomatoes for sure.

      @Patrick – If you want to lose those last 20 and maintain an incredible physique, you have to pick a body-builder type diet and adhere to it 100% for several years. You can’t just loosely follow popular eating plans and expect results. Some of us are just not meant to be sub-10% body fat with rippling muscles. I think it’s more important to eat right and exercise, in a way you can sustain, for several years before deciding you want to put in the effort to get down to your desired weight. Quite possibly you will find your desired weight is 20 pounds over your dream goal. Perhaps your physiology is geared towards becoming more muscular than fat-free. For 7 years I have been lifting weights, daily walking 3-6 miles, running 3-miles/3 times a week, and doing daily bodyweight stuff. I eat as much as I want, selecting mostly “good” food, I avoid fried food like the plague, and I rarely eat refined wheat/flour products. I eat ice cream, drink beer, and have the occasional pizza. My weight has remained at 180 +/-5lbs for 5-6 years now. If I wanted to get to 165, it would require monumental effort and strict diet control, something I am not a fan of, lol.



  7. John on August 23, 2017 at 17:43

    My favorite diet involves super high protein with dessert being a large bowl of cereal. Cottage cheese, lean meat, Greek yogurt, eggs, tuna all day (measured of course). With fruit or vegetables in there. Round it out with a big bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios and 1% milk. 1600-1800 calories, 150-250g protein. Effortless. If I’m low on calories (hard to avoid when going high protein) have a scoop or two of protein before bed. 3 months to shredded – 0 cravings.

  8. Hugh on August 23, 2017 at 20:04

    I briefly went down a rabbit hole on Facebook & was browsing Matt Stone’s 180DegreeHealth.com page. He put up a post that seemed very Nikoley-inspired: “Keto dieters. The Flat Earthers of the nutrition world.”

    About fell out my chair when reading the comments & one lady loudly proclaims she’s unsubscribing. The response?

    “Lol. Bye cunt!”

    Nikoley-inspired indeed.

    Another commenter sagely advises: “If your intention is to educate, then the self-righteous tone needs to go. If your intention is to prove yourself worthy of attention, that’s good to know.”

    His reply: ” Lol. Thanks for the tip, because, you know, being really polite is such a GREAT way to get a message out.”

    Fucking Matt Stone, I’ve always liked that guy. He’s funny. If I had one criticism of Jimmy Moore and Tim Naughton vis a vis this whole situation, it’s that they are being unfunny. Which points to an inability to step outside of themselves.

    • Hugh on August 23, 2017 at 20:29

      And speaking of rabbit holes, Matt Stone’s page sent me into the world of the “cod liver oil” wars. Proponents of cod liver supplementation getting sick as all get out, turning against it, falling out with WAPF and Fallon Morell, dying, etc etc.



    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 06:42

      Ha,, I’ll have to check that out. Matt and I patched things up long ago.



    • JP on August 29, 2017 at 05:02

      I just hope Matt got off the “Eat for Heat” kick. Now what was a gimmick. His book allowed for unlimited eating, including lots of junk/processed food. You just didn’t drink too much water and ate things that supposedly raised your temperature. A lot of people on his old forum tried it and said they gained a lot of weight (surprise!).

      Hopefully he’s moved on to greener, saner pastures. He is pretty good at debunking other people’s fad diets.



  9. Resurgent on August 23, 2017 at 20:14

    100+
    As always, you nailed it perfectly..!!

  10. juanito on August 23, 2017 at 21:04

    Richard, can you please provide explanation/sources to determine average maintenance calories. You also mentioned not eating anything puts you in ketosis. Any specific fasting protocol?

    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 09:10

      Juanito:

      Here, read the Kevin Hall stuff in this post. He’s pretty much the authority on the energy balance equation and offers a link or two for some online calculators.

      https://freetheanimal.com/2017/08/never-slept-naughton.html

      Also, all the most popular smartphone apps incorporate some form of this, apps like LoseIt, My Fitness Pal, and Chronometer. You’re going to input gender, height, weight, and select from about four activity levels. There are three BASIC elements, all estimations but pretty good, each one more refining:

      1. RMR – resting metabolic rate. This is the gender, height, and weight part.
      2. Activity – this is the difference between an office worker and a construction worker. A refinement, but total estimation…and, an office worker who does 2-3 very active workouts per week may overlap a construction worker who’s otherwise sedentary.
      3. NEAT – Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis. It can be huge (like 1,000 calories HUGE). This is essentially fidgeting. So, even when sedentary, there can be a big difference. See the section on NEAT from Lyle McDonald.

      http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/qa-fat-loss-fat-loss/bodyrecomposition-mailbag-4.html/

      #3 is why it’s good to incorporate a tracking device, like a Fitbit. It does a pretty good job of accounting for the elusive NEAT in my experience.



  11. La Frite on August 24, 2017 at 15:26

    Now look at that :

    You get to be lectured on keto for the modest fee of 75$ … wow! when you can get all of it for free here 😀

    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 16:17

      And I’ll try not to get you fat, even if it compromises “health.”



    • La Frite on August 25, 2017 at 03:32

      @Richard

      Haha, doG forbid that I should experience any “health gainz” 😀



  12. LoneWolfArcher on August 24, 2017 at 08:43

    Not sure you used the f word enough Good grief.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 08:47

      You much be new here.

      Well, there are over 4,600 posts, going all the way back to 2003, 14 years. If you plug various “f word” variations into the search function, I’d imagine you’ll get thousands of results. Mostly, I use “the f word” gratuitously.

      Good grief, indeed.

      In the meantime, I’ll content myself with probably being smarter than you.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/27/swear-words-intelligence_n_12213206.html



  13. Paul on August 24, 2017 at 08:43

    If only the Ketotards could just experiment for themselves and see that you can indeed lose a shitload of weight with 90% of your calories from carbs. After some success with low-carb diets I just assumed all the carbohydrate-insulin nonsense was true. Back in January I decided I had to lose weight because I had finally crossed over into obese territory (6’1″, ~230lb). I had previously lost weight on a more sensible low carb Atkins/Paleo approach and decided to take a more extreme high-fat ketogenic diet. I thought if less carbs worked, close to 0 carbs will work even better. I started consuming copious amounts of bacon, eggs and cream and realized after two weeks it was not working. I didn’t even get that initial 10lb weight loss I always saw when going low carb for a while. I actually started to gain weight despite eating very few carbohydrates. Then I started reading more of Stephan Guyenet’s work debunking all of the low-carb BS out there. I started eating rice, bananas, plain rice, eggs, occasional burger (with the bun!) and steak… long story short I’m 175lb right now and I look as good as I did in college 10 years ago.

  14. Bret on August 24, 2017 at 09:14

    “fucktarded videos for fucktards” — almost spit my coffee out on the screen LOL’ing

    I can’t help but see the guy from Idiocracy sitting in his barcalounger and laughing like a retard at the TV.

  15. Ryan on August 24, 2017 at 10:42

    Why are most of your rants on “fauxtosis” based in the assumption that people are aiming for ketosis with the main objective of losing weight?

    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 11:23

      Because, Ryan, you are a moron Ketotard.

      Does that answer your loaded question, you stupid fuck?



    • Richard Nikoley on August 24, 2017 at 11:31

      …And Ryan, let’s be very clear, you fucking moron.

      The vast majority of people looking into this are doing so because they’re fucking too fat and don’t want to be.

      A very slim minority are doing it because ketones equal brain and/or energy magic.

      I love it when fucktarded morons like you pop in and project your own stupid fantasies on the problem at large in an attempt to draw distinctions that don’t even exist.

      You are a fucktard.



  16. thhq on August 24, 2017 at 16:58

    I hate to say it richard, but you’ve arrived at Cordain Paleo, more or less. Fruit, veg and relatively lean meat ad libitum. It’s hard to overeat it.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 25, 2017 at 07:22

      Well, not really, because I have potatoes and legumes in there. Plus, I simply forgot to mention whole grains…so far more Med than Paleo.



  17. GT on August 25, 2017 at 09:05

    I can’t take skinny-fat people seriously when they try to school people on health and fitness.

  18. Bret on August 26, 2017 at 08:49

    “when I’m done for the day, even though I don’t feel that same satisfaction I get from a ribeye steak or pork chop, that I’m OK. I don’t want any more. And, it turns out so far, it’s in the 1,300 – 1,500 calorie range”

    Very similar experience for me when I do beans and rice. Got the idea from Dave Ramsey, who is indeed a crazy religious zealot…but he also knows how to live like you’re poor so that later you can be rich…like AB Dada’s uber inspirational comments on Facebook. I’m amazed at how little food I want to eat when the plate is nothing but unseasoned beans and rice…and I’m plenty satisfied until next meal time. But as soon as I start adding bacon, cheese, herbs, salt, pepper, and all that shit, I will eat literally three times as much as I otherwise would.

    Perfectly in line with Stephan Guyenet’s recent book The Hungry Brain. In it he described an experiment in which people ate a bland, balanced liquid diet (and nothing else) from a machine that tracked calories precisely. They lost weight like crazy with no hunger and kept it off as long as they stuck with the diet.

    Low carbers are obese largely because they want to overstimulate their taste buds all the time. A while ago Richard equated it to buying a new car every single day, which is spot on. If you want to lose weight, eat bland, and unmake mealtime a masturbatory experience. You’ll quickly lose the desire to stuff your face constantly and find interest in other things.

    • Bret on August 26, 2017 at 08:52

      Should also mention, on that Hungry Brain story:

      The patients had unlimited access to the liquid diet. They could slurp down as much as they wanted. But the obese people spontaneously stopped at like 1,000 calories per day. Once they returned to a normal weight and stopped having excess adipose tissue to supplement their meals, they spontaneously began drinking more, to the tune of 2,000+ calories. Amazing stuff.



    • thhq on August 26, 2017 at 12:13

      We forget that our ancestors ate boring food. It’s easy to overeat frosted mini wheats, difficult to overeat unsweetened oatmeal.



    • thhq on August 26, 2017 at 12:19

      We forget that our ancestors ate boring food. It’s easy to overeat frosted mini wheats, difficult to overeat unsweetened porridge.



    • Shameer M. on August 28, 2017 at 23:55

      @thhq

      large game or fish over an open fire is not exactly boring food. Nevermind the abundance of fresh fruit depending on season.



    • Nocona on August 29, 2017 at 10:21

      Bret, don’t move to France.



    • Bret on August 29, 2017 at 11:08

      Ha. I’ll move wherever I damn well please. 🙂

      I don’t have weight or health issues. Those bland food experiments were done solely out of curiosity. I’ve kept my eating obsession as a hobby after dropping weight years back.



  19. Rob on August 29, 2017 at 18:46

    JM proclaims healthy living. I wonder how he would perform on the army’s basic physical fitness test? age adjust of course.

    • JP on August 30, 2017 at 05:01

      Jimmy would do horrible on any fitness test. If the military PT is still based push-ups, sit-ups and a 1.5 mile run, I don’t think any version of him would pass. Though Tom Naughton once said Jimmy had no trouble walking around to play frisbee golf–if that’s your measure of fitness.
      http://www.fathead-movie.com/images/DiscGolf2014a.jpg



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