The Arrest of Jimmy Moore For Underage Sex
There are 7 charges, all the same. “Carnal knowledge” is an archaic legal term for sexual intercourse. Presumably, she, was 13-14 years old at whatever time this took place (I’ve seen claims it was late 2019). The 3+ years older means that when underage per age-of-consent laws, there’s allowance if the other party is less than 3 years older. Obviously that’s not the case here.
I’m posting about this briefly because I’ve been both alerted to it by readers as well as been asked what my take is. Also, Jimmy has had a hugely popular podcast for many years with new episodes running up to late May, just a bit ago. I’ve been a guest on it myself a couple of times and even guest-hosted it once while he was on vacation. I considered it an honor. I’ve met Jimmy in person a number of times over the years and we’ve always bantered swimmingly.
I was OK with our various disagreements over the years. I turned on him when he tried to capitalize on “Keto” while pouring on pounds, obviously, visually. Regular LC Atkins seemed to work decently for him. I became a bit of a Jimmy basher myself, I guess. But after a while, it just seemed silly and beneath me and I stopped engaging in all that and just left it all alone. Hadn’t thought much or any about him in years.
Until now.
Who knows what all the relevant facts are? I sure don’t. All I know is that he left and divorced his wife Christine a few years back. Related? I don’t know but it’s a reasonable suspicion. And, nothing in the charges suggest coercion or force…suggesting it was consensual.
In other words, you have two sexually-mature humans (i.e., post puberty) engaging in sexual intercourse. The charge is, essentially, that he has knowledge and experience with her evolutionarily (or God…take your pick) primed and menstruating vagina.
A crime? Well, that’s up to society, culture, and the law as handed down. But it has zero to do with any sort of crime against nature. One could even argue that it’s perfectly natural (if there’s grass on the field, play ball).
One thing I noted when I checked out comments on his last Tweet and Instagram post is that there’s a lot of #MeToo stuff—even dudes proclaiming how they were sexually abused at 3yo or something and it took them 30 years to get over it.
They are conflating pedophilia with a law that says even though she’s naturally good to go at 13 if she wants, gotta wait to 18. Or, 16. Or, 17.
So, by our own laws in this federation of states, you can be a “pedophile” in one state and just be disgusting in another. The penalty of law vs. just the scorn of society. Perhaps a map of abortion laws will look like that again, someday. A murderer in one state, a saint in another…
To reiterate: for me, the distinction is puberty and nothing else.
That’s in terms of legal stuff. In terms of society, culture, community, family, church, norms, etc., that’s up to everyone themselves, and those with whom they commune.
For myself, I find it distasteful. Doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy. And that’s me. I didn’t even care for chicks under 20 when I was 20. At the same time, girls have their own proclivities. I’ve been with one for 2 1/2 years. I’m 61, she’s 29, and a mother of two girls, 13 and 11. Prior to me, she was in a 3-year gig with a Brazilian and spent a year there. But before that, at the age of 14, she was a little Lolita, seduced and snuck around with a 31 year old shopkeeper, got married at 16 with parental consent and had the two girls at 16 and 17. She’s never been with a man in her life less than twice her age. It’s her thing. She found males her own age to be boys. Many Thai women do.
Why ought the law interfere in that?
…I went back and forth over even mentioning this at all. My integrity won out once I saw the comments various places and in not one single instance did a single commenter point out that this isn’t really pedophilia and there are no charges implying force, coercion, rape, or anything of the sort.
100% #MeToo dog-pile condemnation. A virtue-signalling circle-jerk amongst imbeciles. Talk about disgusting?
So, I had to weigh my integrity and commitment to honest dealing against a cultivated disdain for Jimmy owing to his departure from sane LC Atkins to increasingly lower and lower protein, higher and higher fat—the source of his downfall: Keto.
In some way I feel sorry for the guy. I saw the life imploding and was witness to it likely because in 2016 I started a Facebook group called “Ketotards,” and of course, Jimmy was a mainstay of derision over all that. So I saw everything daily. I eventually changed the name of the group away from a Keto focus, then eventually deleted it.
Certainly others will have their own ideas as to the downfall. For me, it’s simple cognitive dissonance. He was living a lie, everyone knew it, and so did he. Rather than take the requisite steps, he did a bunch of other stuff and apparently, two of those things were to divorce his wife and take up with an extremely young though sexually mature girl.
To my mind, it’s all connected.
What do you think in comments, especially those well familiar with Jimmy over many years?
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A lot of what you are saying here is true in general but it fails to account for the larger social context of our time.
My family background is Swamp Yankee (New England version of white trash) and growing up, I knew 8 of my grandparents and great-grandparents. Among the older folks in my family we have at least 3 couples with these big age gaps.
In the old days, there was a big distinction between before and after puberty. All my grandparents were making adult decisions at a young age. One grandfather lied about his age at 14 and joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Another left school at 14 to work in a cabinet shop. Another was told by his dad he could leave school and go to work or continue his education; it was entirely up to him. That dad came to the USA from Finland at 17 and told the immigration officer he was 22 and had no difficulty being admitted. If teenagers had a bad home life they could very easily take off and had no problem finding work and a better living situation.
Nowadays, it’s completely different. Teenagers have very few options and many are dealing with parents that are mentally ill and have serious problems. Many women with these problems will bring slimy boyfriends home and that’s where the trouble often is. I saw a lot of this growing up.
We need to stop infantilizing teenagers but until we do the age of consent needs to be 18 across the board to account for the social conditions of our time.
My opinion is that a 13 year old in our society doesn’t have any options and thus cannot truly consent to sex with an adult. Nowadays, a lot of adults aren’t actually adults, or they aren’t adults the way my grandparents were, and if you’re a kid then you’re better off not having them in your life, if at all possible.
I can’t imagine a scenario here where this isn’t deeply disturbing or where Jimmy Moore isn’t a bad person.
Shoot, I thought he was gay. And yeah, that’s not pedophilia, just gross and unadvisable.
American teens are the dumbest they have ever been. These days, females are developing physically younger and younger (menstruation at 8?!) and I believe it’s related to all the junk they’re being exposed to. “If there’s grass on the field, play ball” is hard to accept when it’s astroturf.
EXACTLY.
I appreciate all that Scott and yea, times were a bit different. I was fortunate to have a great grandmother until about 30 and 3 of my 4 grandparents lived until I was near 40…the other died while in my late 20s.
My great grandmother had my grandmother when she was 15, in 1919.
I bristle a little bit over wishy-washiness over what consent means. It’s a simple word. Saying that someone because of some arbitrary age “cannot truly consent” is a pretty big No True Scotsman fallacy. It’s the same sort of fallacy employed when someone claims a black person cannot truly be a racist and correspondingly, a white person cannot truly be non-racially biased.
I think it’s conflating the notion of consent to the fact of errors and mistakes. People of all ages from about perhaps 5 on up consent, volunteer, seek out all sorts of things from small to big. Rarely is there perfect information and so, errors and bad consequences and outcomes happen. Something called life. And sometimes it works out fine as it did for my great grandmother who ran away from home and got herself knocked up at 14.
To be clear, I agree that sex that young is generally a bad idea, for both males and females. It certainly made sense sometime in the past since that’s how we’re made up…it had to count for a survival advantage somehow. Nor do I complain about various familial and community prohibitions and protections. Yes, it’s perfectly sane to limit interaction between opposite-sex teens and that weighed heavily on parents, extended family, churches and schools not so long ago in general. Remember when even at 16, dates were chaperoned. All sane behavior.
But I think this is a realm for exactly that, and not for the State to one-size-fits-all it for everyone independent of individual circumstances. And remember, no matter what you do, what precautions you take, bad outcomes are always possible, including going the other way. How many teen pregnancies result from girls running away from “overprotective” families?
A final thing is that the term influence is kind of a weasel word in this context. Influence is all around us at all times, some good, some bad, and it’s tough to honestly account for. We all make choices and decisions that are often influenced by others to varying degree.
So far, at 18 comments, all pretty damn reasonable. I’ve read and taken to heart all of them.
He’s always been a bit too much of a Jim Bakker type character for my liking. One wonders what Tom Naughton has to say now.
Tom staked quite a lot on Jimmy, though I’ve not seen what Tom’s been up to for at least a few years.
One does hope Uncle Jimmy minded his p’s and q’s while a guest at the Naughton hobby farm back in the day.
How does a 13 year old child truly “consent.” Disappointed you’re giving him a hall pass on this.
Checked into it, Todd. Apparently, some time ago he quit doing the fathead-movie blog and started blogging at tomnaughton.com.
His last post is months ago but there’s a comment from a few days ago, along with his reply.
https://www.tomnaughton.com/index.php/dear-lefties-want-us-to-get-along-its-simple/#comment-310079
Tom,
Is the rumor that Jimmy Moore got arrested for 7 counts of penetration of a 13 year old girl? That’s extremely disturbing – I’m assuming he won’t be invited back to your disc golf outing this summer?
P.S. I watched Fat Head the other day after not seeing it for several years, and it still holds up. Amazing documentary!
Tom’s reply:
I don’t know any more about Jimmy’s arrest than anyone else. It so happens I do know one guy who was arrested on sexual assault charges that turned out to be bogus (as confirmed by a security camera), so I’m not jumping to any conclusions.
Many of us went through the LC, Paleo, etc….. diet crazes. I used to follow Jimmy in the old days. Watched his weight shoot up and down like a yo-yo. I remember him bragging about eating huge amounts of KerryGold butter and being in “ketosis”. He always seemed like a nice guy to me, regardless of his ideas.
Honestly, I hope the guy is innocent.
How does a 13 year old child truly “consent.” Disappointed you’re giving him a hall pass on this.
I THINK I get Richard’s point that “the distinction is puberty and nothing else.” I agree, it’s certainly not pedophilia. A 13-year-old who looks and (at least superficially) acts like a 20-year-old, isn’t the same as a toddler. But it’s also not an 18-year-old being suddenly criminalized for sleeping with his 15-year old girlfriend of two years just because he had a birthday.
I understand that Richard’s perspective is through an evolutionary lens. Personally, I am a Christian and make a stronger distinction between mating humans and mating animals. A human who gets pregnant and rears a child as soon as they are physically able is not comparable to an animal that can. While the Bible doesn’t give an age, it does say that those getting married (when they are also expected to have sex) to be past the “bloom of youth.” That means, as I understand it, that there is a period of time where a person is progressing through and out of puberty where they may begin to have the appearance of an adult but have not yet completed their psychological and emotional progression into adulthood. Which, can be younger or older depending on the individual. That is where they are more fully capable of using their “powers of reason” to decide whether and with whom they choose to have sex and to accept all of the responsibilities that come with it. In this case, that could mean being a Junior High mother to Jimmy Moore’s child.
That’s why I think it’s more than just distasteful. You wouldn’t enter a business agreement with a 13-year-old or allow them to make life altering decisions when they’re still developing into adulthood.
If a 13-year-old is truly capable of consenting to having sex with Jimmy Moore, is she also capable of deciding to change her gender?
Eve,
I think I can actually bolster your point. Whether you see this from the evolutionary lens as I do, or the Christian lens you do, there’s not much difference I can see.
You have the Word, the family, and your church to protect and nurture until self-sufficiency. Evolution has the tribe, village, etc. One aspect of humans from the evolutionary perspective is that we can live far beyond our reproductive usefulness. Evolution shouldn’t care about us old folk, yet it does.
To me, the obvious answer is the survival advantage afforded by the wisdom of grandparents as well as their crucial role is child rearing…often to relieve parents to do the things needed for material survival.
Oh, one other point about the gender change. I was going to address this in my reply to Scott, above, then couldn’t find where I read it.
For me, it’s much less conflated and confusing to simply say “sure, she can consent to a gender change.” But nobody ought let her.
Same for drugs and alcohol, and many other things. Consent all you want, but responsible adults won’t let you.
…There should be a special place in Hell reserved for medical professionals who would facilitate any of this gender fluidity bullshit in barely hormonal teens (and even the puberty blockers…what madness).
Speaking of diets, do you still stay in touch with the ‘tater’ guy ( I forgot his name)?
Tim Steele, a.k.a. Tatertot. Wasn’t that long ago Richard posted about that.
Tater guy here! I quit following everyone 5-6 years ago back when Sisson sold out to Heinz for $23M and Jimmy M. was a pathetic loser hawking keto. It was so obvious to me that all the big names were simply capitalizing on the viral nature of keto. I’ve kept up with Richard all this time, tho.
IF Jimmy had any kind of sex with a 13 year old boy or girl, he deserves what he will get in prison, but, I’ll wait to see what the courts say. Things aren’t always as they seem.
I think it was more like $180 mil.
Turns out it’s $200 mil.
https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2018/11/29/Kraft-Heinz-to-acquire-Primal-Kitchen-for-200m
I was trepidatious at first, but then saw over time that it has remained unchanged in terms of ingredients so it has become a whatever for me. If it all stays as Mark designed it, well good for him being able to cash in like that.
Yeah, 200 million $$. I’d also be taking the money. Or even 23 million. ‘Sell out’, WTF?
The idea of sex with Jimmy Moore, at any age, is repellant. But the idea of a 40+-year-old man seeking out sexual activity with a girl barely out of 8th grade strikes me as sad and manipulative. The frontal lobe, responsible for higher cognitive functions such as memory, emotions, impulse control, problem-solving, social interaction, and motor function, is not fully developed until at least age 25. Often these old guys use psychological manipulation to win over these young victims. What girl in their right mind would think Jimmy would be a fun roll in the hay? If you like them young, what is wrong with 25, or older? He is obviously unwell having fallen for the cult of Keto and his religious crapola, which to me is just weaponized virtue.
Yea, I get it Angela.
But on the other hand, such is the messy nature of the world. I couldn’t begin to imagine what things would be like if nobody could be held fully accountable until 25 because their brain isn’t fully developed.
Plus, is it conceivable that part of what contributes to that ultimate development is making some bad mistakes and facing real consequences for them all along the way?
About Jimmy: I followed him for some time, mostly because he introduced me to wiser voices – including Richard. I listened to nearly all of his episodes. I stopped after his interview with Mark Sisson several years ago where he bemoaned his inability to lose weight but basically shot down Mark’s advice to track what he ate. Some sort of “I don’t diet” nonsense.
Anyone who follows him is a fool.
Eve, that’s funny. Had a brief text exchange with Sisson yesterday who said he’d dissociated with Jimmy about 5 years ago. I replied and said I’ll bet it was after that podcast where you politely challenged him (to no effect, obviously). I remembered because I listened to it up on my cabin deck up in Arnold and it was exactly the last Moore podcast I ever listened to.
Jimmy was also a jerk to Paul Jaminet.
Yep.
https://www.freetheanimal.com/2015/05/jimmy-moore-webpire.html
Wow! Talk about a blast from the past. I listened to your interviews around 2014 and took to using potato starch briefly some time ago (as suggested by you (and I believe Paul Jaminet), but got out of the habit. I enjoyed the several interviews I heard with you both and t I recall you and Richard talking about working on a book together in the past then it seemed like you both fell off the face of the earth for a time, (drowned out by the keto kraze?) I’ve had to filter through a lot of the keto hucksters, too. But I still hold Sisson in high regard. Selling out to Heinz bothered me for a time, but I accept his explanation. He and Robb Wolf are two of the last balanced voices left, in my opinion. So cool to see that you have a book out, too. I look forward to checking it out. Are you still recommending potato starch? I’ll start back up for sure.